APA Nationals...like playing at your local tavern

[8BallWonderland]

I also think that the fixed non random draw of the brackets is a joke.

What other sport seeds the 1 seed vs 2 then the 3 vs 4 etc.
It either should be random or the 1 seed vs the 222nd seed.
The Apa seeds the tournament like this to give the weaker 6's and 7's etc a chance to finish higher because the Apa's Equalizer system does not actually work.

If the Equalizer system worked why would they penalize the best players in their respective tiers by bunching all the best players together.

 

[cookie man]

All 5 players that went from my area had free paid for by our L.O. That includes flights, rooms, transportation to and from the airport and baggage fees covered.

Maybe players in your area didn't get that. You should talk to your L.O. then.


Leagueguy

What area you from?
For my original 15 dollars I received, 300 travel money(airfare 460), and half my room paid at the riv( I paid 40 and the apa paid 40). This was not a free ride. I would doubt that any players except you got all that you claim, congrats to the L.O.

 

[cookie man]

I also think that the fixed non random draw of the brackets is a joke.

What other sport seeds the 1 seed vs 2 then the 3 vs 4 etc.
It either should be random or the 1 seed vs the 222nd seed.
The Apa seeds the tournament like this to give the weaker 6's and 7's etc a chance to finish higher because the Apa's Equalizer system does not actually work.

If the Equalizer system worked why would they penalize the best players in their respective tiers by bunching all the best players together.

This is correct. If the Equalizer system is so good why are we seeded from absolute best to absolute worst?

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Or maybe they just don't know anything about the arrangement the national office has with its table vendor.

Some of the league operators HAVE spoken up and voiced concerns about the number of equipment complaints this year. They just didn't do it here, as this is not the place for it.

I was there, and the biggest issue I saw was the trouble everyone seemed to be having with the soft plastic racks. I'm sure there were other issues, but they weren't as visible and they certainly didn't apply to ALL of the tables. Then again, I remember the trouble everyone had the year they used the Sardo racks...

Thank you. For me at least, I wasn't here to "bash" the APA. That's hardly the case and I'll readily admit, I enjoy playing in the APA and plan to continue playing. My issue was simply with the equipment that was used. I want it to be better and have seen it done better.

As for the other issues brought up in this thread, I really have no comment. The APA does nothing to hide the tournament structure or the payout structure. If you don't like it, you don't need to attend. In truth, if the APA doesn't change their equipment provider, it will probably be a long time before I return to their show but I'll still play APA. I'm sorry, I like my team.

 

[justadub]

Justadub,

I was not there this year so I really can't say anything about the comments on here. I have been to Vegas a few times for team events and Masters and I didn't have any problem. The equipment has been fine the times I have played there including last August.

In my own opinion, I wish they would bring back the Diamonds but that does not mean that the equipment is bad, it is just not the same as what some people like to play on.

I hope you get a chance to go sometime so that you can see for yourself that it is the best tournament anywhere and is nowhere near as bad as the APA bashers make it out to be

Leagueguy.

I think by now you know I'm joking. :smilewinkgrin:

Maybe it's just my self-defense mechanisim kicking in, in the event that we don't get through the qualifiers next month. We gotta win threemore matches... three more... just three more...

No, I really hope to be able to go. It will be a blast, no matter what equipment we end up playing on.

And of course I realize that it won't be anywhere near as bad as the bashers will make it out to be. And maybe not as good as others think either. But a week (or so) in Vegas playing pool? How can that be bad?

 

[cookie man]

Justadub,

I was not there this year so I really can't say anything about the comments on here. I have been to Vegas a few times for team events and Masters and I didn't have any problem. The equipment has been fine the times I have played there including last August.

In my own opinion, I wish they would bring back the Diamonds but that does not mean that the equipment is bad, it is just not the same as what some people like to play on.

I hope you get a chance to go sometime so that you can see for yourself that it is the best tournament anywhere and is nowhere near as bad as the APA bashers make it out to be

Leagueguy.

The equipment is typical bartable equipment but do you really agree with a couple hundred masters teams standing around in the same room at match time waiting for table assignments? How about sudden death(one game)? Do you agree the masters should be run like a mini tourn ? We play masters league, 30 teams paying 30 dollars a week, we deserve a little more respect than we're showed.
With all their experience the tournament should be run much better.

 

[cookie man]

Thank you. For me at least, I wasn't here to "bash" the APA. That's hardly the case and I'll readily admit, I enjoy playing in the APA and plan to continue playing. My issue was simply with the equipment that was used. I want it to be better and have seen it done better.

As for the other issues brought up in this thread, I really have no comment. The APA does nothing to hide the tournament structure or the payout structure. If you don't like it, you don't need to attend. In truth, if the APA doesn't change their equipment provider, it will probably be a long time before I return to their show but I'll still play APA. I'm sorry, I like my team.

Jude your right, I have had the same 8-ball team together for about 12 years (as a team been to vegas once), and I love my team. Personally would just like to see tournament run better, and no plastic racks.

 

[cardiac kid]

This is correct. If the Equalizer system is so good why are we seeded from absolute best to absolute worst?

Being a relatively new to the APA player, how does the APA determine how a player is seeded? Is this just room for some behind the back horse trading? Is that how the eight ball singles is done? An inquiring mind wants to know.

Lyn

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Being a relatively new to the APA player, how does the APA determine how a player is seeded? Is this just room for some behind the back horse trading? Is that how the eight ball singles is done? An inquiring mind wants to know.

Lyn

Honestly, I'm not 100% certain about seeding. It is obvious when they have a bracket for 6s and 7s, they will put all 6s on one side and all 7s on the other side. From there, it's anybody's guess what happens but it appears there is continued polarization with stronger players toward one side of the chart and weaker players on the other. No APA tournament organizer has admitted this to me or anyone I know but EVERYONE that plays in these tournaments suspects this is the case. I was actually a bit shocked to realize everyone in Vegas thought so.

 

[cookie man]

Being a relatively new to the APA player, how does the APA determine how a player is seeded? Is this just room for some behind the back horse trading? Is that how the eight ball singles is done? An inquiring mind wants to know.

Lyn

Lyn, even though your a 7 its broken down farther in their computer, 7.1111, 7.1112, 7.1113 and so on. So in theory the 2 best players play each other and so on down the line. The charts are broken into groups and you don't get out of that group unless you win it.

 

[cookie man]

Honestly, I'm not 100% certain about seeding. It is obvious when they have a bracket for 6s and 7s, they will put all 6s on one side and all 7s on the other side. From there, it's anybody's guess what happens but it appears there is continued polarization with stronger players toward one side of the chart and weaker players on the other. No APA tournament organizer has admitted this to me or anyone I know but EVERYONE that plays in these tournaments suspects this is the case. I was actually a bit shocked to realize everyone in Vegas thought so.

Jude, when we have our singles qualifier we are actually given our number as its broken down, 7.1116, etc. and seeded accordingly.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Jude, when we have our singles qualifier we are actually given our number as its broken down, 7.1116, etc. and seeded accordingly.

Wow, I'm actually curious now as to where I could find this stat. I bet it's not normally made available to people.

 

[cardiac kid]

Lyn, even though your a 7 its broken down farther in their computer, 7.1111, 7.1112, 7.1113 and so on. So in theory the 2 best players play each other and so on down the line. The charts are broken into groups and you don't get out of that group unless you win it.

And this is all done single elimination? Long way to travel to get one shot at the money! Then again, it's not about the money is it. It's about the trip .

Lyn

 

[Bigkahuna]

I am really surprised A league operator would disburse any info on handicaps. I thought that was all to be kept away from players for the integrity of the system.
Cookieman, I have been out there many times in years past and talked to lots of players. Some teams only pay $25 weekly dues others more. The travel funds also vary from LO to LO. We pay $40 weekly but all airfare and rooms are paid for. Your weekly dues are how prize funds and travel expenses are paid for.
BK

 

[sk8ordie]

What is this FREE TRIP to Vegas everyone talks about? I started playing APA in 2000 and finally won cities in 2004 for 8 ball. I played DJ for the four years at $860 (fees, quarters) a year, give or take. That times four years = $3,440.00. After the split up of our money, I received $475 for my trip. $3,440-$475= $2965. I'm still in the hole, where's the FREE TRIP? I think a FREE TRIP would have been them giving me the $3440+$475. Seeing how I could've just spent the $395 airfare out of my own pocket in 2000 and played in the mini tourneys and saved thousands of dollars. I'm not b*tching, I just think it's funny when people call it a FREE TRIP. I had a blast but, the APA tournament wasn't as great as I expected but, tables were not unplayable, well a couple maybe. It's definitely worth going for the first time, I quit APA and don't care for going back for that. I'm on BCA now and trying that venue. Made it to the final 2 teams and came in 2nd

 

[TheNewSharkster]

What is this FREE TRIP to Vegas everyone talks about? I started playing APA in 2000 and finally won cities in 2004 for 8 ball. I played DJ for the four years at $860 (fees, quarters) a year, give or take. That times four years = $3,440.00. After the split up of our money, I received $475 for my trip. $3,440-$475= $2965. I'm still in the hole, where's the FREE TRIP? I think a FREE TRIP would have been them giving me the $3440+$475. Seeing how I could've just spent the $395 airfare out of my own pocket in 2000 and played in the mini tourneys and saved thousands of dollars. I'm not b*tching, I just think it's funny when people call it a FREE TRIP. I had a blast but, the APA tournament wasn't as great as I expected but, tables were not unplayable, well a couple maybe. It's definitely worth going for the first time, I quit APA and don't care for going back for that. I'm on BCA now and trying that venue. Made it to the final 2 teams and came in 2nd

Now that is just silly. You expect APA to pay you back all the money you spent in previous years for it to be considered a "free" trip?!? Wake up and smell the coffee. They can't stay in business by doing stuff like that *and* if you can get a plane ticket/hotel under $475 it is a free trip.

 

[cookie man]

And this is all done single elimination? Long way to travel to get one shot at the money! Then again, it's not about the money is it. It's about the trip .

Lyn

Modified single elimination, guaranteed to play twice, lose after that your gone.

 

[cookie man]

I am really surprised A league operator would disburse any info on handicaps. I thought that was all to be kept away from players for the integrity of the system.
Cookieman, I have been out there many times in years past and talked to lots of players. Some teams only pay $25 weekly dues others more. The travel funds also vary from LO to LO. We pay $40 weekly but all airfare and rooms are paid for. Your weekly dues are how prize funds and travel expenses are paid for.
BK

Your talking teams, we are talking singles.

 

[uwate]

Lyn I believe its all done by statistics. Won/loss record, number of innings in those games and matches, etc. There are a number of stats they keep including break and runs, 8 on the break, scratch on 8, 8 out of turn, safeties, etc. You toss all that into the apa computer genie and you get a rating. Then they rank the players with worst rating being on top, best on the bottom. There are a number of intangibles of course. The obvious being sandbagging. Some less obvious ones are difficulty of the division you play in. Some divisions around the country have divisions that have quite a few "super sevens", basically guys that play regional pro speed. You get into a soft division and your record is artificially pumped up bc you might get a whole year without being beat. Maybe even not beat a single game. Esp someone who plays your speed. Some of things too is that if you dont play alot the statistics are easier to move. A guy who plays 20 times, stalling the whole time can manipulate his record vs a guy who plays 50 times a year or more. I know many APA guys who play two to three times a week on a bunch of different teams.

It is a bit discouraging to get to vegas after spending all year playing and then you see your in a bracket with Gabe Apollos, Ernesto Bayau, Steve Knoll etc. What is also more interesting is the way they do the losers bracket. Unlike most tournaments, the APA keeps all the players in a group together. So for example in your bracket of 16, if you lose you go across, staying within your bracket of 16. In the end, its like APA Highlander...There can be only ONE! and only one player emerges from that 16 and eventually from 32 and eventually from the top 64 players in the event. Meanwhile over in Greenacres on the other three brackets of 64 you have guys getting to the finals who the guys in the bottom would love to try some giving up the 6 ball.

It is what it is. I think if the APA truly allowed it to be random draw, there would be a much higher influx of lurking in the weeds pro speed players. As it is, you pretty much know that all the guys who can run racks will be cutting each others throats. If you manage to do the Highlander routine successfully, the bonus is that when you get to the final 4 its pretty much a joke stealing. Or at least from what I saw at the nineball event. Alex Olinger out of Ohio won the 9ball event. In the bottom 64 bracket he beat guys who were putting 30-50 balls on him in an inning or two. Then he gets to the semi finals/finals and hes playing guys who wont put any packages at all on him. It was stealing, I think he won like 75-15 or something.

 

[cardiac kid]

uwate,

Thanks for the explaination. Haven't qualified for nine ball yet. Only eight ball. Looking forward to playing some folks of my caliber. Not particularly excited about the seeded thing but it's their sandbox.

Lyn