Best way to send the APA a message IMHO is a Vote with your Wallet. Drop Membership when renewal time comes, and send a Letter with your feeling instead of a CHECK. JMHO
APA Nationals...like playing at your local tavern
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Best way to send the APA a message IMHO is a Vote with your Wallet. Drop Membership when renewal time comes, and send a Letter with your feeling instead of a CHECK. JMHO
Hi Jude. True, the condition seems to be the biggest complaint. I just wanted to point out that a mint condition Valley plays more true than a mint Diamond. When diamond systems and spot-on-the-wall systems don't work on one brand of table exclusively, the table should be fixed or no longer produced. Going back to the slug rack comment I really think those cheap plastic racks should be banned from competition. At state we played rack your own and it took literally minutes to get the racks reasonably tight. Keyword there is reasonably because they were never completely tight. I cannot remember where I was but I played in a tournament, on diamonds, within the last year and they had replaced all the nice diamond racks with plastic junk. At the very least they could design a new plastic rack with both ends flared and no taper through the thing. Maybe they would hold their shape better? Those things are a joke. I'd hate to play it without rack your own. I can imagine how many arguements/fights there would be with the opponents racking with that junk.
I have shot some pretty good pool on a well-maintained Valley BB in my time. The only issue I have with the Valley tables is those bucket-sized corner pockets will suck in more balls than Heidi Fleiss ever did. I've seen OB's hit almost two full diamonds away (on the long rail) and still manage to go in. Oh well, at least both players benefit from that (probably why I have shot some pretty good pool on them
).I have never been to Vegas (and probably will never go). If I did go to Nationals and found the same crappy table conditions that I play on from week-to-week in regular league play, I too would be very dissatisfied.
Maniac
I had a good time out there. If I had one complaint it would be the delay between matches. Having to wait about 5 and a half hours between the early matches was similar to a wait at State. I know they have minis going on and they wanted to keep the main event in the big room, but still... too much time to wait to get myself in trouble drinking and gambling 
.
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mr8ball
Active member
One thing I learned about the APA is that they are CHEEP. Regardless if the tables come through a third party or not they saw them the past few years and should have done something about them. I don't play APA anymore for the simple reason stated above. IMO they are all about making money along with all of the league operators. As long as people keep showing up things will never change with them. I am sure if you give Diamond enough notice they will have tables that they can bring to Vegas. JMO
I'm on the fence with the tables, sure they were sub-par. But how many coins did you put in to play in the tournament? Not sure they would just switch to diamonds and let us play for free. I'd be willing to pay a green fee or a resonable amount per game. (no $1 is not a resonable amount to me, lots of diamonds around here are $1)
My biggest gripe is the payouts. 222 6's and 7's playing for $15,000 and 30 2's and 3's playing for $15,000. How the hell is that fair????
My biggest gripe is the payouts. 222 6's and 7's playing for $15,000 and 30 2's and 3's playing for $15,000. How the hell is that fair????
cmon Scott "nothing to do with the tables"? They are the ones paying and surely can have a stipulation in the contract that covers whatever e.g. "all tables shall have been manufactured after 1/2009 and shall be furnished with brand new simonis cloth......blah blah"
Scott, I must respectfully disagree with you on "Its not he APA's fault, its a 3rd party" issue. Mark Griffin uses Bad boys Billiard productions to supply the tables and run the event. Do you think for one second if there were these kind of comments coming back to him that he wouldn't either get rid of Bad Boys or give them a talking to about the quality? I know he would. So the APA who pay for the 3rd party can do the same if they care.
Quote Jude Rosenstock
For the record though, everyone was playing under the same circumstances and I cannot say the equipment had any impact on the outcome of any of my matches.
Jude, I have to disagree with you also. If you have slow cloth, dead rails and a cueball that you can't spin or limited spin, it puts you and your game at a disadvantage. You can give the reasoning that "hey we all had to play on the same equiptment" This is true and a good player can change with the conditions to a certain extent. However the reason you have a handicap is maybe because you can play better shape then the other guy or gal and get out when the table is set. This advantage goes away if you can't play certain shots and you are reduced to only having the option to roll forward or stun the ball. So now you still have the handicap but your skills you have that make you a better player have been neutalized. Therefore you may have lost a match or won a match due to the table not being in good shape. JMO.
I was saying that because I don't want anyone to think I'm making an excuse for losing. I'm not. My opponents played well and I wouldn't want to take anything away from them.
Haven't you heard you shouldn't ever question the APA's way of doing things?
The APA league simply isn't designed to put a lot of money in the players pockets. It's a form of entertainment. There are other options if it doesn't meet your needs.
Can't please everyone.
It's a successful business that brings a fair number of new players to the game. That can't be all bad.
The APA league simply isn't designed to put a lot of money in the players pockets. It's a form of entertainment. There are other options if it doesn't meet your needs.
Can't please everyone.
It's a successful business that brings a fair number of new players to the game. That can't be all bad.
Got ya, I understand and thats probably the right way to do it.
They like to preach their equalizer handicap system to make the game 'fair' so why not have the payouts fair. The way I see it:
First place money.
15,000/30= $500 per player
15,000/222 = $67.5 per player
So the APA had $500 for every 2 and 3 in their bracket to the winner. The APA had $67.5 for every 6 and 7 in their bracket to the winner. That's not 'fair'.
I don't look at the APA as entertainment, I look at it as a way to compete in the sport of billiards.
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They're just more interested in giving the 2's and 3's more incentive to come back.
aaaaaarggghhhhh, I've been reading too much NPR again!
Somewhat seriously, I expect it probably has something to do with the number of people who showed up. Meaning they probably had the amounts pre-determined before the event, and didn't/wouldn't/couldn't adjust based on actual turnout.
Strictly a guess. Perhaps LeagueOperator will stop by and clarify.
I don't understand this? How does APA have nothing to do with this? They approved and paid for this third party company to provide tables and equipment for their biggest and most important tournament for team billiards in the world with coverage to all pool players. I've been hearing this same thing for almost a decade now about the crappy tables and equipment. I'm sure APA has picked up on it by now. So doesn't that still make APA responsible for this??? This is the main reason people pay fees every week to make it to this huge event and this is what you get when you arrive? My cities tournament was better than Vegas tournament back in 2004. I could be wrong.
It's predetermined and everyone who went understood what they were getting into. Unfortuantely i'm trying to use common sense, and i've learned that common sense and the pool world don't always go hand in hand.
I think it should simply be:
$100,000 in prize money:
if there are 1,000 players competing then:
%50 are 6's and 7's then $50,000 prize pool
%25 are 5's then $25,000 prize pool
%15 are 4's then $15,000 prize pool
%10 are 2's and 3's then $10,000 prize pool
You see that makes sense and is fair.
I think it should simply be:
$100,000 in prize money:
if there are 1,000 players competing then:
%50 are 6's and 7's then $50,000 prize pool
%25 are 5's then $25,000 prize pool
%15 are 4's then $15,000 prize pool
%10 are 2's and 3's then $10,000 prize pool
You see that makes sense and is fair.
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The APA does not care about what's fair. They want to keep the low/mid skill level players happiest as that range is responsible for providing the majority of their revenue.
My biggest gripe, which was already posted is seeding the brackets within a skill level tier.
They reward the lesser skilled players (in each skill level) by letting them play each other, and punish the more skilled players by forcing them to take each other out early.
Imagine a seeded pro event where in the first round the top seed had to play the 2nd, 3rd had to play the 4th... and so on.
APA and Diamond tables
Just for everyones information.
if the APA would like to use Diamond tabeles, that can be accomplished - it will only take a phone call and a little bit of notice.
Although I am a partner in Diamond Billiad Products, is that any reason to boycott a product?
This only penalizes the players and further fractures the pool industry. It is pretty sad when some of the top billiard entities cannot work together to make the game better for everyone.
How do you criticize the players for not behaving when two powerhouses cannot work together? BTW - it only takes one to prevent harmoney.
Mark Griffin, CEO
CSI - BCAPL - USAPL
Just for everyones information.
if the APA would like to use Diamond tabeles, that can be accomplished - it will only take a phone call and a little bit of notice.
Although I am a partner in Diamond Billiad Products, is that any reason to boycott a product?
This only penalizes the players and further fractures the pool industry. It is pretty sad when some of the top billiard entities cannot work together to make the game better for everyone.
How do you criticize the players for not behaving when two powerhouses cannot work together? BTW - it only takes one to prevent harmoney.
Mark Griffin, CEO
CSI - BCAPL - USAPL
Diamonds at BCAPL
Just an FYI - our event will have about 280 tables on site this year.
We try to present more choices for all players. This year US Open One Pocket, US Open 10-Ball, Hi-Run Challenge, 9-Ball teams and singles PLUS about 28 more 8-ball events.
It is the "Greatest Pool Tournament in the World"!
Mark Griffin, CEO
CSI - BCAPL - USAPL
Just an FYI - our event will have about 280 tables on site this year.
We try to present more choices for all players. This year US Open One Pocket, US Open 10-Ball, Hi-Run Challenge, 9-Ball teams and singles PLUS about 28 more 8-ball events.
It is the "Greatest Pool Tournament in the World"!
Mark Griffin, CEO
CSI - BCAPL - USAPL
Prize money comes from a qualifier pool in which everyone competes and plays against each other, a series of 15 dollar tournaments.
I was also at this tournament but do not have the same gripes. It is bar tables and yes the tables could be better, but the diamonds at SBE 2 years ago were the absolute worst tables. The plastic racks and the horrible Q ball should be gone, but they are pretty standard for bar pool. The real problem is the lack of respect for the players by the tournament directors and refs. Calling your name out on a mic at 9:28 for a 9:30 match is ridiculous. No practice is a very bad rule. One match I let an opponent hit 4 balls while I put my sticks together, then I put 4 balls on the table and mid stroke a ref threw 10 or 15 clipboards in the middle of my shot, should have just smacked him, instead politely listen to him explain no practicing. The worst part is nobody was on the 2 tables next to us yet and he still throws the clipboards on my table, enforcing the no practice rules to the extreme. One morning a 9:30 match, find a group of 30 tables about 8:50 start to hit a few balls. No tournament matches anywhere in this group, not bothering anyone, but I'm told I need to find a table that is locked up and pay a dollar a game to practice, I couldn't practice on an open table.
In my opinion this tournament was run by people who probably have never played a game of pool in their life, and was reffed by league players probably on the 3 or 4 skill level that were happy to stick their chest out and boss poolplayers around,a total joke IMO.
In my opinion this tournament was run by people who probably have never played a game of pool in their life, and was reffed by league players probably on the 3 or 4 skill level that were happy to stick their chest out and boss poolplayers around,a total joke IMO.