I guess you are talking about a miscue on the break and grabbing the cue as it rolls up the table. Actually if you read the rules on breaking...THE RACK MUST BE STRUCK BEFORE A FOUL CAN OCCUR If you are talking about after it is hit, i apologize.
APA question for 9 ball?
- Thread starter evis
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I guess you are talking about a miscue on the break and grabbing the cue as it rolls up the table. Actually if you read the rules on breaking...THE RACK MUST BE STRUCK BEFORE A FOUL CAN OCCUR If you are talking about after it is hit, i apologize.
Banks
Banned
Short rack 8? Is that the 9b rack style?
Within reason, 'overs' are okay by me, too. I've got a friend that, when playing cribbage, would take his thrown cards back about half the time. It gets pretty old on a regular basis. If we were playing serious, that wouldn't happen, but for funsies in cards and pool, I'm not going to get bent out of shape about it. If I lose an APA match by a ball or two, maybe I shouldn't have been missing so much!
As for the OP, I'd let them know that they should always let it come to rest, because somebody can call them for some stupid stuff and have it stick. Other than that, leave your hand off the ball until it stops because sometimes things happen.
Banks
Banned
He's talking about a tournament, probably using BCA-type rules where once the ball is struck it counts as the break shot. Yes, no fouls can occur in APA until the rack is struck.
Banks
Banned
Because I love having started in APA and being able to say that I can beat chumps like you that do nothing but jump in and knock like little babies. Come on up to Portland.
No, before you hit the rack. If you break, miss the 1 (in 9 ball),that's not a foul? I think the foul rule is about something else, a break is a shot, how can it not be possible for it not to count as such if you mess it up? I thought the game started once the cueball passed the headstring on the break, so once it's past there, and missed a legal contact, it must be a foul.
This ^ is how you extend a thread past it's normal lifespan.
And mention how it's somehow either Bush's or Obama's fault.
Basically, two players committed a foul in the same inning.
My understanding is... only the shooter can commit a 'regular' foul that results in ball in hand.
For a player to 'foul' from the chair they basically have to do something unsportsmanlike.
There aren't any standard 'ball-in-hand' fouls from the chair.
----
In the past, I've heard that there's a special 'loss of game' or even 'loss of set' penalty for unsportsmanlike behavior. Maybe that's in older physical copies of the APA rules. But if you look at their latest online rules, there's nothing written about intentional fouls or special penalties.
http://www.poolplayers.com/8-9-ball-rules.pdf
Well, almost:
Teams involved in repeatedly calling bad hits without outside party verification may be subject to penalty points for disruptive unsportsmanlike behavior.
So, there's only one case where they talk about special penalties, and the penalties are points. I have no ideas if that's match points, or game points, or what. It needs to be explained a little better.
Since the rulebook doesn't really spell out any harsher penalty than ball in hand, and since the guy in the chair fouled second (and was borderline unsportsmanline), player A should get ball in hand. Player B shouldn't.
The reasoning is that player B's foul was more egregious... because his foul altered the outcome of the game and possibly the match. Maybe the CB was going to run into a 9 ball and hang it near the hole for an easy combo. Maybe it was going to break out a cluster. Maybe it was going to relocate a ball somewhere that changes the rack from a cosmo to mission impossible. The whole set is tainted by that one action (even if it's not intentional).
If a guy is hooked and tried to kick a ball, and hit some other ball first, nobody would even consider grabbing the CB before it came to rest.
My understanding is... only the shooter can commit a 'regular' foul that results in ball in hand.
For a player to 'foul' from the chair they basically have to do something unsportsmanlike.
There aren't any standard 'ball-in-hand' fouls from the chair.
----
In the past, I've heard that there's a special 'loss of game' or even 'loss of set' penalty for unsportsmanlike behavior. Maybe that's in older physical copies of the APA rules. But if you look at their latest online rules, there's nothing written about intentional fouls or special penalties.
http://www.poolplayers.com/8-9-ball-rules.pdf
Well, almost:
Teams involved in repeatedly calling bad hits without outside party verification may be subject to penalty points for disruptive unsportsmanlike behavior.
So, there's only one case where they talk about special penalties, and the penalties are points. I have no ideas if that's match points, or game points, or what. It needs to be explained a little better.
Since the rulebook doesn't really spell out any harsher penalty than ball in hand, and since the guy in the chair fouled second (and was borderline unsportsmanline), player A should get ball in hand. Player B shouldn't.
The reasoning is that player B's foul was more egregious... because his foul altered the outcome of the game and possibly the match. Maybe the CB was going to run into a 9 ball and hang it near the hole for an easy combo. Maybe it was going to break out a cluster. Maybe it was going to relocate a ball somewhere that changes the rack from a cosmo to mission impossible. The whole set is tainted by that one action (even if it's not intentional).
If a guy is hooked and tried to kick a ball, and hit some other ball first, nobody would even consider grabbing the CB before it came to rest.
Nope. Here is the rule straight from the APA book. The OP is talking about APA
To be a legal break, players must break
from behind the head string, the head ball must be
struck first and at least four object balls must be driven
to the rails or a ball must be pocketed. The cue ball may
not be shot into a rail before the rack. Failure to strike
the 1-ball first does not result in a foul. If the break does
not qualify as legal, the balls are reracked and broken
by the same player. If the break does not qualify as legal
and results in a scratch, the balls are reracked and
broken by the opposite player. THE RACK MUST BE
STRUCK BEFORE A FOUL CAN OCCUR.
Yeah that where it gets kinda grey:angry:
Because I have a great time, that's why.
And yes, I suck at pool. But I have fun, and I think I'm improving. At least a little. Funny, we have between 100 and 150 people playing here in our division, depending on the session (and the season). And pretty much all oif us are having fun. Interesting, isnt it?
IIRC, the APA Team Manual states that there are no penalties for unsportsmanlike conduct, although I may be mistaken. I am about to leave for the poolhall and don't have time to look it up.
If the shooter stops it from rolling after a foul has already been commited, then it is unsportsmanlike conduct, to which there is no penalty.
IMO though as far as the OP's scenario is concerned, the rule SHOULD be that player B has now commited a foul by touching a moving cueball and the BIH should now revert BACK to player A. I doubt that the rule will ever read this way, but it should. That would stop a lot of people from messing with a rolling cueball.
Hell, to go even FURTHER.....maybe the rule should read that he/she that touches a moving cueball gets a loss-of-game penalty, period!!! That would really stop this practice from continuing, or at least it should.
Maniac
If the shooter stops it from rolling after a foul has already been commited, then it is unsportsmanlike conduct, to which there is no penalty.
IMO though as far as the OP's scenario is concerned, the rule SHOULD be that player B has now commited a foul by touching a moving cueball and the BIH should now revert BACK to player A. I doubt that the rule will ever read this way, but it should. That would stop a lot of people from messing with a rolling cueball.
Hell, to go even FURTHER.....maybe the rule should read that he/she that touches a moving cueball gets a loss-of-game penalty, period!!! That would really stop this practice from continuing, or at least it should.
Maniac
I'm new here and am assuming obvious troll is obvious.
Yes and if somebody does that make sure you let them know. If they continue to do it let the division rep or LO know. While not covered specifically in the rules it is obviously cheating if somebody uses that to win a game.
The real issue with this scenario is that it's APA 9-Ball, with points on the table. If you make this action loss of game, what do you do with the points? You can't just give them to the other player, as that would have an impact on the score that player gets for the match and could affect his/her handicap. In this case it was four points, but it could be as many as ten "free" points (more than half the target for 1's and 2's).
On the other hand, if you don't give the points to the other player, there's still no incentive for the shooting player NOT to stop the cue ball from breaking apart the 8 and 9. Loss of game means nothing without the points in APA 9-Ball.
Even if you're playing in a league that dosen't score 9-Ball by points, if there's a handicap system a loss of game penalty could have a significant impact on the sitting player's handicap.
I think the best you can do without creating confusion or putting bad data into a handicap calculation is to penalize the offender with something other than a game-affecting penalty. Something like a two-point (team points, the ones in the standings) sportsmanship penalty. You play the match out, then subtract two points from the offending player's team. I don't do that, and I don't know anyone who does, but it might be an interesting compromise.
The funny thing is, I think that's the official penalty anyway for sportsmanship fouls. There's that one line in the online rulebook:
Teams involved in repeatedly calling bad hits without outside party verification may be subject to penalty points for disruptive unsportsmanlike behavior.
It's the only non-BIH penalty mentioned in the rules. I think there was a gameplan to implement a penalty point system, but someone just forgot to flesh it out.
Probably deducting match points is exactly what they meant, and it would be a very sensible solution to intentional fouls, sharking, etc.
Hey, question for you: what skill level are you, and where do you play out of?
You do play APA, right? At least as I understand it, you do.....
So, you tell us, why do you play? If you hate it so much, why play?