APA Question???

dquarasr

Registered
I have a longer list 😃

However I do support league as it puts cues I peoples hands and they have fun. It’s just not for me personally. But I’d never knock league play in general. It’s good for pool on many levels. Equipment manufacture, room owners, etc.
Of course I was joking. I play APA and I enjoy it. I have no delusions I will advance beyond a 6 or 7; I’m a 5 now. So for me, it’s perfect.
 

Fatboy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Of course I was joking. I play APA and I enjoy it. I have no delusions I will advance beyond a 6 or 7; I’m a 5 now. So for me, it’s perfect.
That’s great your a 5, that’s a fun time in pool. You’ll get there, keep at it. Good luck and have fun! Just keep at it and practice, learn to like practicing and then you’ll arrive.

My best regards and good luck
Fatboy😃😃
 

AceAngeles

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
When I find myself in an interesting situation, I’ll sometimes call time out and ask one of my lower rated players to come “help me“. It gives everybody a chuckle, but more importantly provides the lower rated player with a bit of a teachable moment that might benefit them sometime in the future.
I've been in situation when I'm not 100% sure what I want to do. I'll ask for a time out and let some of my other players talk it over and give opinions. Although I'm the highest ranked player on my team sometimes someone may sees something that I don't. I agree it's also a good teachable moment for the other players to think it out. It doesn't matter if they are a 2 or a 6, it's a good learning experience. It also makes the other players feel more important that you are interested in their opinion.
 

APA Operator

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Stumpie71,
Yes in rule D it states "if any member of the team suggest a time-out to the shooter, the time-out will charged." If the shooter didn't hear it, it wasn't suggested to the shooter before he shot! What if the player obviously didn't hear the time-out being called before he shot? That's the question in hand. Just as Rickhem mentioned, in the past I've never seen anyone hold that to an official time-out because it was never consummated. There was no advantage given to the player, so how can it be considered a time-out. The whole concept on the section for "Coaching Rules" is to make sure a player doesn't get an unfair advantage. In this situation no advantage was given to the shooter.
That's like saying "If I toss a ball to you, but you don't see it and it hits you in the head, I didn't toss it to you." The suggestion was made, whether it was heard or not. Now, your take on that section is good and if I were the opponent I wouldn't charge the time out, but as the League Operator I would have to enforce the rule as written. I would also make myself aware of the background between the two teams, because there is often more to the story than what is told. Maybe one team or the other likes to "lean on" the rules to get whatever advantage they can, or maybe there is animosity between the teams or some players on the teams. A good League Operator knows his players and teams.
 

chasrwest

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Absolutely not helpful but I use to call timeouts on my guys, especially the better players just to F with them, I'd walk up say something stupid, we'd laugh and carry on til next time 🤷🏻‍♂️
We do this too...usually to break any tension or stress the shooter develops. My lovely wife usually tells players to get their head out of their ass and make the f'n shot. It is pretty effective, at least with our bunch of degenerates. You can't genuinely laugh and be tense.
 

Rickhem

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think we all get tunnel vision occasionally. Being an accurate shooter, and always looking for the possible out, sometimes we miss the perfect safety. It's good when your team has different players that see all the options that sometimes get missed by the shooter.
 

Ģüśţāṿ

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
When I find myself in an interesting situation, I’ll sometimes call time out and ask one of my lower rated players to come “help me“. It gives everybody a chuckle, but more importantly provides the lower rated player with a bit of a teachable moment that might benefit them sometime in the future.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who does this. No matter your skill level, getting a second opinion is always a great option. I always pick the team mate (again regardless of skill level) that I feel would make a good decision at that moment based on the shots available. Of course, it helps knowing your team mates strengths and weaknesses.
 

AceAngeles

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
That's like saying "If I toss a ball to you, but you don't see it and it hits you in the head, I didn't toss it to you." The suggestion was made, whether it was heard or not. Now, your take on that section is good and if I were the opponent I wouldn't charge the time out, but as the League Operator I would have to enforce the rule as written. I would also make myself aware of the background between the two teams, because there is often more to the story than what is told. Maybe one team or the other likes to "lean on" the rules to get whatever advantage they can, or maybe there is animosity between the teams or some players on the teams. A good League Operator knows his players and teams.
First of all, thank you league operator for responding.... I'm a "7", a Captain and I've played in the league over 15 years, and I've never suggested a time-out be recorded in this situation. Your analogy of tossing the ball to someone is not a good analogy. It's more like "if you toss a ball to me, but I didn't know it was being thrown to me, you can't suggest that I didn't catch it". It's my understanding that when in doubt, you examine the intent of the rule. This goes for every sport including legal matters, the intent. To be consistent it's similar to the rule (B) that states "taking too many time outs is not a foul, although consistent attempts to do so (bad intent, trickery to gain an advantage) may result in a sportsmanship violation (ball in hand)." So, if there is no malice (bad intent) when an extra time out is called, it's not a foul. This unwritten rule seems to fall into the same category as the player didn't hear the time out before he shot, so why mark it down that it occurred. Furthermore, "The Equalizer Handicap System" formula does not include time outs, you only mark them down in case someone is trying to take an unfair advantage by using them in an unsportsmanship like way.
 

SSDiver2112

2b || !2b t^ ?
The general practice for us is the coach simply asks, "Do you want to talk?". If they wave him off there is no coach. Of course, there is the possibility the player could wave them off and then change their shot, but then someone would call them out on it. What is common is the player waves off and plays the shot, or says yes and take the coach to find out what they may be missing.
 

justadub

Rattling corners nightly
Silver Member
That's like saying "If I toss a ball to you, but you don't see it and it hits you in the head, I didn't toss it to you." The suggestion was made, whether it was heard or not. Now, your take on that section is good and if I were the opponent I wouldn't charge the time out, but as the League Operator I would have to enforce the rule as written. I would also make myself aware of the background between the two teams, because there is often more to the story than what is told. Maybe one team or the other likes to "lean on" the rules to get whatever advantage they can, or maybe there is animosity between the teams or some players on the teams. A good League Operator knows his players and teams.

I was hoping that you would be chiming in here when I started reading the thread.

This is exactly as I would expect you to answer, and how I would try to respond (as a Div Rep people think I'm supposed to be the go-to on these things, even tho that's not how the program is used here, lol). I would like to think most of the time in our room, it would be an innocent scenario, and wouldn't warrant charging the timeout. Of course, there are always exceptions in any group of people, so the official answer has to be charge it. As a captain or player, I likely wouldn't push the issue. Unless its an obvious abuse.
 

APA Operator

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Furthermore, "The Equalizer Handicap System" formula does not include time outs, you only mark them down in case someone is trying to take an unfair advantage by using them in an unsportsmanship like way.

They ARE part of the Equalizer System, which includes more than just the formula. It's important that they get marked.
 

PracticeChampion

Well-known member
How many times has someone found out that you're a pool player and said "My aunt can beat you, she went to Vegas!"
Just heard that very thing. Guy walks up and asks if he can bring his secretary and can he bet big on her? She plays everywhere including Vegas!!! We laugh and say sure 👍. A odd girl showed up the following week, likely her not sure but She was absolutely f.cking terrible
 

rjb1168

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I would not charge them a time out if they never engaged the player, I
don't care what the rule states. Thats the way I roll and if rolls reversed
and they want to mark a time out on me, go for it, but know you will hear
about it. I also would not forget it, what goes around comes around!
 

AceAngeles

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
They ARE part of the Equalizer System, which includes more than just the formula. It's important that they get marked.
Interesting, I was told by our League operator that they are not calculated in the Equalizer Handicap System formula, you only keep track of the time outs so no one uses more time outs than they are supposed to use.
 

whammo57

Kim Walker
Silver Member
i would say no time out was used. I know the player can refuse the called time out if they choose not to get help.
yes the player can refuse the time out........................ but if any player on the team called for the time out................. a time out is charged whether the player accepted it or not

Kim
 

APA Operator

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Interesting, I was told by our League operator that they are not calculated in the Equalizer Handicap System formula, you only keep track of the time outs so no one uses more time outs than they are supposed to use.
Having that information on the scoresheet does more than make sure you don't use too many. Think about it. If you're looking at two different 3's who have identical matches on the scoresheet except one used two time outs per game and the other used zero, wouldn't that give you some (even if it's only a little) information about those two players? At the very least, it can give you a clue about who keeps conscientious score.
 
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