APA screwed our very own sleinen out of a national championship

SBC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yeah, you're probably right about that; It ain't for me.
A little back story, I played APA for years. With friends, and sometimes just joined a team and made even more friends. In the end, I saw my own game going drastically down. I could have used that $10 for more table time. Instead, I tried to dedicate it to the one day a week - where I'd wait 40 minutes to play one game. Try to help on the time-outs and explain how a safety might work best, only to see it butchered.
I'd be pushed out by my captain up against a SL-2. Mercilessly watching someone piddle putz a few stripes.... around a barbox... and yes with a Revo shaft in a JB case.
I spent all that time.... wondering..... is this what pool is now??

Alstl had it pegged when he mentioned who the APA would pander to - the banger or the better player.

As far as sandbagging goes - you said it yourself "Some teams go there and are consciously subverting the skill level system"

APA degrades the game. APA isn't saving pool. APA comes to a room, siphons off players who would have otherwise participated in the pool room culture, working through the ranks and playing traditional games on full sized tables. On occasion in addition to regular league play the APA will run tournaments....for APA only. All this creates a division where players have to choose what path they take. As typical for our time people want the easy way. APA will play anywhere, shitty bars on shitty equipment, So long as the money keeps rolling in. Many times league operators undercut traditional, longstanding rooms and contribute to their demise. So when the last pool hall, with the last 9 foot table in your town closes just be happy that the APA has saved pool for us all.
 

Tony_in_MD

You want some of this?
Silver Member
The loss of poolrooms happened for many other reasons than the APA.

Right now the only 9 foot table within an hour from my house is in my basement, and it has been that way for at least 20 years.

APA degrades the game. APA isn't saving pool. APA comes to a room, siphons off players who would have otherwise participated in the pool room culture, working through the ranks and playing traditional games on full sized tables. On occasion in addition to regular league play the APA will run tournaments....for APA only. All this creates a division where players have to choose what path they take. As typical for our time people want the easy way. APA will play anywhere, shitty bars on shitty equipment, So long as the money keeps rolling in. Many times league operators undercut traditional, longstanding rooms and contribute to their demise. So when the last pool hall, with the last 9 foot table in your town closes just be happy that the APA has saved pool for us all.
 

sneakynito

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
APA degrades the game. APA isn't saving pool. APA comes to a room, siphons off players who would have otherwise participated in the pool room culture, working through the ranks and playing traditional games on full sized tables. On occasion in addition to regular league play the APA will run tournaments....for APA only. All this creates a division where players have to choose what path they take. As typical for our time people want the easy way. APA will play anywhere, shitty bars on shitty equipment, So long as the money keeps rolling in. Many times league operators undercut traditional, longstanding rooms and contribute to their demise. So when the last pool hall, with the last 9 foot table in your town closes just be happy that the APA has saved pool for us all.
Pretty myopic.

There are certainly other avenues depending on how you want to approach pool, but most APA players are happy playing casual pool in a semi-competitive environment and having a few beers with their friends every week. Nothing wrong with that.

You're not getting the same kind of camaraderie in tournament play or gambling.
And, around here at least, the leagues are not "siphoning off" players. Most of the teams are in bars with a couple of tables. People could go there and just drink and maybe put a couple quarters in the table every once in awhile, or a league could operate and get more people into caring about the game.

It's obviously there to make money, pool doesn't exactly draw the habitat for humanity crowd. There's drama and politics associated with it, like anything. But if it gets more people to play, brings money into the establishments that allow us to play, and people are enjoying themselves, then why shit on it?
 

Scratch85

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
APA degrades the game. APA isn't saving pool. APA comes to a room, siphons off players who would have otherwise participated in the pool room culture, working through the ranks and playing traditional games on full sized tables. On occasion in addition to regular league play the APA will run tournaments....for APA only. All this creates a division where players have to choose what path they take. As typical for our time people want the easy way. APA will play anywhere, shitty bars on shitty equipment, So long as the money keeps rolling in. Many times league operators undercut traditional, longstanding rooms and contribute to their demise. So when the last pool hall, with the last 9 foot table in your town closes just be happy that the APA has saved pool for us all.

I disagree with most of this ^^^.

I do agree the "APA will play anywhere . . . so long as the money keeps rolling in." But that's just it, the money keeps rolling in. It is pool players' money and it must be popular with pool players. Otherwise, the money would quit rolling in.

I do not know Sean or his friends but I believe they do not intentionally "sandbag". I believe they respect pool and take pride in their approach to the game. I also feel bad for their DQ.

However, the APA has set guidelines as to how they handle players playing over their SL. It's kind of like getting a speeding ticket. You may not have been speeding on purpose, or speed regularly, or have been unsafe when you were speeding but you still received a speeding ticket and have to pay the penalties. That doesn't mean the speed zone is unfair and shouldn't apply to you because you didn't speed on purpose.

The APA penalty is the same. Many "sandbag" on purpose and get away with it. Some are fortunate to play above their SL and get penalized. "Sandbagging" is a problem in any handicap league and you have to establish some measure to prevent it.
 

Snooker Theory

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
After reading through the thread, playing in an APA league is something I will never do again, did one season and didn't like the bullshit, figured that maybe it was isolated to my area, seems a national issue.

The people who are pro APA somehow make me like the organization even less.
 

Celophanewrap

Call me Grace
Silver Member
This from a jealous competitor and certified APA hater


APA degrades the game. APA isn't saving pool. APA comes to a room, siphons off players who would have otherwise participated in the pool room culture, working through the ranks and playing traditional games on full sized tables. On occasion in addition to regular league play the APA will run tournaments....for APA only. All this creates a division where players have to choose what path they take. As typical for our time people want the easy way. APA will play anywhere, shitty bars on shitty equipment, So long as the money keeps rolling in. Many times league operators undercut traditional, longstanding rooms and contribute to their demise. So when the last pool hall, with the last 9 foot table in your town closes just be happy that the APA has saved pool for us all.
 

Celophanewrap

Call me Grace
Silver Member


Hint, there is usually a line at the bar with APA in the morning hours. :thumbup:

another difference: There are also players at the tables at the APA event
 

Celophanewrap

Call me Grace
Silver Member
After reading through the thread, playing in an APA league is something I will never do again, did one season and didn't like the bullshit, figured that maybe it was isolated to my area, seems a national issue.

The people who are pro APA somehow make me like the organization even less.

As you should. If I didn't know better I'd think it was a National issue as well.
In fairness I suppose it is a national issue, in as much as the APA event is an
actual World Championship.
That is, there are definitely problems, but they're not everywhere, but they do exist.
Like I have said, The APA isn't for everybody. If you don't think it's for you
it probably isn't. If you think you're to advanced as a player to play in the APA, you
probably are. I'm sure the APA appreciates the session and the chance you gave it.
As an APA player I wish you success in your pool and billiard endeavors
 

SBC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The loss of poolrooms happened for many other reasons than the APA.

Right now the only 9 foot table within an hour from my house is in my basement, and it has been that way for at least 20 years.

1979
Co-Founders – Larry Hubbart and Terry Bell developed an idea for a centrally controlled nationwide amateur pool organization. It most certainly is a factor.
 

SBC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Pretty myopic.

There are certainly other avenues depending on how you want to approach pool, but most APA players are happy playing casual pool in a semi-competitive environment and having a few beers with their friends every week. Nothing wrong with that.

You're not getting the same kind of camaraderie in tournament play or gambling.
And, around here at least, the leagues are not "siphoning off" players. Most of the teams are in bars with a couple of tables. People could go there and just drink and maybe put a couple quarters in the table every once in awhile, or a league could operate and get more people into caring about the game.

It's obviously there to make money, pool doesn't exactly draw the habitat for humanity crowd. There's drama and politics associated with it, like anything. But if it gets more people to play, brings money into the establishments that allow us to play, and people are enjoying themselves, then why shit on it?
So you just reiterated APA near you supports bars, not pool halls. Then threw in that traditional pool hall patrons are scumbags.
 
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SBC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This from a jealous competitor and certified APA hater

Jealous of nothing. I'm keeping pool going As It Should Be here in Syracuse. I'm not in it to make money son. It's called character...doing something because I can versus just letting things go as they are. Rebuilding literally from ashes when in under 5 years we went from 3 pool halls to zero.

I built a room for the old timers, majority veterans, and lifelong pool players to have a place to call home. Because that's what I've enjoyed for 25 years myself. Could give a rat's ass to host APA because I don't in any way support it. We are here as pool's last stand in Syracuse...that's just as simple as I can say it.
 
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Tony_in_MD

You want some of this?
Silver Member
Does the same hold true for TAP, ACS, BCA and any other league pool you can think of?

The pool halls in my area went under, when property values went up, and building owners realized that they could make more money on their property than renting to a pool hall owner.

The only pool halls that I know of (that are left) are those in which the building is not rented from a second party.

p.s. the smoking ban in Maryland didn't help the situation either.

1979
Co-Founders – Larry Hubbart and Terry Bell developed an idea for a centrally controlled nationwide amateur pool organization. It most certainly is a factor.
 

SBC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Here's what we are doing to support pool TOMORROW.
EARL STRICKLAND RETURNS
Wednesday 8/21/19 at 5pm Earl will play challenge racks of 9 ball with fans.

Then at 6pm he will play Shaun Wilkie, our last action match winner, a race to 11 set of 9 ball.

This will be followed by our 5th SALT CITY BILLIARDS OPEN NINE BALL TOURNANENT with other professional and top regional players.

The challenge racks with fans and match with Strickland vs Wilkie will be available to watch Free on Billiardnet.tv.
 
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Celophanewrap

Call me Grace
Silver Member
Here's what we are doing to support pool TOMORROW.
EARL STRICKLAND RETURNS
Wednesday 8/21/19 at 5pm Earl will play challenge racks of 9 ball with fans.

Then at 6pm he will play Shaun Wilkie, our last action match winner, a race to 11 set of 9 ball.

This will be followed by our 5th SALT CITY BILLIARDS OPEN NINE BALL TOURNANENT with other professional and top regional players.

The challenge racks with fans and match with Strickland vs Wilkie will be available to watch Free on Billiardnet.tv.

First I've heard of it. I hope you do well
 

jokrswylde

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I built a room for the old timers, majority veterans, and lifelong pool players to have a place to call home. Because that's what I've enjoyed for 25 years myself.

This is great. Kudos to you. Not everyone wants a room like that, though.
Could give a rat's ass to host APA because I don't in any way support it. We are here as pool's last stand in Syracuse...that's just as simple as I can say it.

Pool will be played in Syracuse long after salt city billiards goes the way of the dodo. It may not be played in the manner that you prefer, but it will be played.

This seems like a very personal issue you have with leagues. But not everyone lives in Syracuse, or in a place that even has pool halls. The closes hall to me is JOB's in Nashville, One of the oldest pool halls around, host location of the Music City open, former home room of Minnesota Fats. It is about an hour away and they have maybe 2 big tables, 1 snooker table, and a bazillion 7 footers. They run an APA league, an in-house league, and one other alphabet league I believe. The leagues are certainly helping keep the doors open.

BTW, Congrats on your room and I hope you are successful for a very long time. I could sit in a pool hall all day...no loud music, no alcohol, just pool. My friends? No way. They want the digital jukebox, cute girls walking by, hot wings and cold beer. But they are learning pool, getting more interested....heck I even got a couple of them to come over and watch Mosconi Cup with me...I don't see why anyone has a problem with that.
 

book collector

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I joined one of the very first Busch teams in Columbus, played a while and every week my captain kept saying , slow down , play more safes when you are winning sandbag sandbag sandbag,
All the other teams were doing the same thing.
We play for the city championship in a bar one of the best players in toen plays on every day , he is on the opposite team , and after being there all day on a saturday waiting to play , I go home about midnight because I have to be at work the next morning at 7 am for a 12 hour shift of WORK, {not sitting around.}
At about 2 am they call me and tell me we are 1 game away from going and tell me they decided to finish it out , I have to play the guy who plays on this table every day , could spot me the 7 on a bar table and beat me and I get there and have to spot him a game.
Of course I lost, my team acted like I had sold them out and I told the captain to please never call me again about a pool league.
10 years later they told me leagues were different now, it was exactly the same , the guy that put me out of the singles ,played in the same room I did in columbus. I had never beaten him
gambling and was probably at least the 8 ball better than me and he was a 4, I was a 6.
He actually won the whole thing and they disqualified him for raising too many levels in too short of a time and he sued them to no avail.
He was so distraught he quit playing pool. lol
I'm sure I have said it before on here but I think it is important to reiterate that I would not play on a league if they paid me 75 dollars a night just to show up.
A hundo and I might be tempted.
If the guy in question actually did rise to the occasion , then I feel bad for him, but my experience has been that people sandbag and then get caught, somewhere down the road.
 
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jokrswylde

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I joined one of the very first Busch teams in Columbus, played a while and every week my captain kept saying , slow down , play more safes when you are winning sandbag sandbag sandbag,
All the other teams were doing the same thing.
We play for the city championship in a bar one of the best players in toen plays on every day , he is on the opposite team , and after being there all day on a saturday waiting to play , I go home about midnight because I have to be at work the next morning at 7 am for a 12 hour shift of WORK, {not sitting around.}
At about 2 am they call me and tell me we are 1 game away from going and tell me they decided to finish it out , I have to play the guy who plays on this table every day , could spot me the 7 on a bar table and beat me and I get there and have to spot him a game.
Of course I lost, my team acted like I had sold them out and I told the captain to please never call me again about a pool league.
10 years later they told me leagues were different now, it was exactly the same , the guy that put me out of the singles ,played in the same room I did in columbus. I had never beaten him
gambling and was probably at least the 8 ball better than me and he was a 4, I was a 6.
He actually won the whole thing and they disqualified him for raising too many levels in too short of a time and he sued them to no avail.
He was so distraught he quit playing pool. lol
I'm sure I have said it before on here but I think it is important to reiterate that I would not play on a league if they paid me 75 dollars a night just to show up.
A hundo and I might be tempted.
If the guy in question actually did rise to the occasion , then I feel bad for him, but my experience has been that people sandbag and then get caught, somewhere down the road.
Sounds like a pretty crappy experience. I tell everyone on my team that we play to win every game. I have even kicked a guy off my team because he admitted that he "needed a loss" in order to keep from possibly moving up...it never crossed his mind that his "loss" cost us the match and a higher playoff seed.
 

Tony_in_MD

You want some of this?
Silver Member
Good for you, glad to hear that there are pool halls starting back up.

Jealous of nothing. I'm keeping pool going As It Should Be here in Syracuse. I'm not in it to make money son. It's called character...doing something because I can versus just letting things go as they are. Rebuilding literally from ashes when in under 5 years we went from 3 pool halls to zero.

I built a room for the old timers, majority veterans, and lifelong pool players to have a place to call home. Because that's what I've enjoyed for 25 years myself. Could give a rat's ass to host APA because I don't in any way support it. We are here as pool's last stand in Syracuse...that's just as simple as I can say it.
 
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