And IMHO that is a perfectly acceptable reason not to play in leagues. You just don't enjoy the other people who play in it! It's not the leagues fault you don't like the players, it's human nature and the world is full of idiots!
Brian
APA Warning!!!!!
- Thread starter Kid Dynomite
- Start date
And IMHO that is a perfectly acceptable reason not to play in leagues. You just don't enjoy the other people who play in it! It's not the leagues fault you don't like the players, it's human nature and the world is full of idiots!
Brian
Not an attorney, I work in the forensic community and all of our clients are attorneys.
Easy answer there. The same reason that all amateur sports companies end up with more players than the professional ranks. The vast majority of pool players are duffers and that is how those leagues survive.
Our scoresheets have how much is owed by each player weekly!
In my opinion this is complete BS. The LO should have contacted the team and told them that if X amount isn't paid they will forfeit the trip to nationals.
If the players in question that left the team hadn't paid the annual league dues that shouldn't be held against a team they played on previously. If it were the weekly dues that would make more sense since the whole team is responsible for them. Either way that sucks they took away all those points for such a small amount of money without at least issueing a verbal warning.
If the players in question that left the team hadn't paid the annual league dues that shouldn't be held against a team they played on previously. If it were the weekly dues that would make more sense since the whole team is responsible for them. Either way that sucks they took away all those points for such a small amount of money without at least issueing a verbal warning.
I think the reason that the APA has more players is mostly two fold...
First, good marketing...you can hardly find a bar or pool hall that doesn't have an APA league and fliers for it plastered all over ever wall, counter top and bathroom stall. Combine that with the fact that they've been around forever for word of mouth and league operators that do tend to actually try and recruit and you have market saturation.
Secondly, they tend to cater more towards the weaker players and social players. In other words...if you're just looking for a night out for drinking and fun, and don't want to have to worry about needing to get better to be able to be competitive...then the APA is the league for you. It caters more to the social players and we all know there are a heck of a lot more of them out there than there are the serious players.
This is not to say that there aren't some good players in the APA...and now with the Masters Division, this is probably more so. However, I think the better players still tend to drift more towards the BCA league system without the handicaps. We even tried to have an APA masters league around the area I play, but it folded after a couple of weeks due to the other teams quitting (I might also mention, I never saw any of my money back that I paid in to it either...it was just never heard from again)
Still, as a whole, you're not going to be able to assemble good strong teams in the regular division...and lets face it, once you get to a certain level, playing a match against the local drunk or bar fly really starts to lose it's appeal regardless of the handicap.
Although, now that I think about it, it is still probably more preferable than actually having to play on the same team as the aforementioned local drunk and barfly...
just my 2 cent's worth
i joined an apa league back in february just to log some time on an 8 foot table and sharpen what few skills i still have. for the most part the players in this league are there to socialise, drink and have a good time. our team captain got booted from the league and i somehow inherited the captaincy. i proceeded to study like mad to learn their quirky rules and add the players that i wanted. some of what i have read is very true, most of the problems listed in the original post can be traced back to the LO and the individual captain. i watch my team very closely(dues, yearly fees, etc) even though our Lo posts monies owed on the weekly score sheet.
is the apa clique-ish? very much so, if you are not in the "in Crowd" the LO can really disrupt your team by manipulating handicaps, booting team members from the league, allowing opposing players handicaps to remain low, etc. my opinion is that if you are not going to pay extra attention to anything which might affect your team then maybe you should go play bar room pool on friday nights or accept the apa for what it really is, a social network intended to have fun and maybe luck into a chance at vegas.
mike
i joined an apa league back in february just to log some time on an 8 foot table and sharpen what few skills i still have. for the most part the players in this league are there to socialise, drink and have a good time. our team captain got booted from the league and i somehow inherited the captaincy. i proceeded to study like mad to learn their quirky rules and add the players that i wanted. some of what i have read is very true, most of the problems listed in the original post can be traced back to the LO and the individual captain. i watch my team very closely(dues, yearly fees, etc) even though our Lo posts monies owed on the weekly score sheet.
is the apa clique-ish? very much so, if you are not in the "in Crowd" the LO can really disrupt your team by manipulating handicaps, booting team members from the league, allowing opposing players handicaps to remain low, etc. my opinion is that if you are not going to pay extra attention to anything which might affect your team then maybe you should go play bar room pool on friday nights or accept the apa for what it really is, a social network intended to have fun and maybe luck into a chance at vegas.
mike
I think the reason that the APA has more players is mostly two fold...
First, good marketing...you can hardly find a bar or pool hall that doesn't have an APA league and fliers for it plastered all over ever wall, counter top and bathroom stall. Combine that with the fact that they've been around forever for word of mouth and league operators that do tend to actually try and recruit and you have market saturation.
Secondly, they tend to cater more towards the weaker players and social players. In other words...if you're just looking for a night out for drinking and fun, and don't want to have to worry about needing to get better to be able to be competitive...then the APA is the league for you. It caters more to the social players and we all know there are a heck of a lot more of them out there than there are the serious players.
This is not to say that there aren't some good players in the APA...and now with the Masters Division, this is probably more so. However, I think the better players still tend to drift more towards the BCA league system without the handicaps. We even tried to have an APA masters league around the area I play, but it folded after a couple of weeks due to the other teams quitting (I might also mention, I never saw any of my money back that I paid in to it either...it was just never heard from again)
Still, as a whole, you're not going to be able to assemble good strong teams in the regular division...and lets face it, once you get to a certain level, playing a match against the local drunk or bar fly really starts to lose it's appeal regardless of the handicap.
Although, now that I think about it, it is still probably more preferable than actually having to play on the same team as the aforementioned local drunk and barfly...
OK, so the APA has a very good marketing program, and they tend to reach the largest group (social players) of pool players around. Here is a cold hard fact. Those of us posting here, and taking the game as seriously as we do are in the minority.
So what has the APA accomplished?
They have filled pool rooms on the slowest nights of the week, generating income that keeps those rooms open for us to use.
They have helped many production cue companies, and maybe even a few custom makers sell more product.
They hold some very high profile tournaments in Vegas every year, and pay out a considerable amount of money.
They, through the 23 rule, encourage their members to recruit more new players into the game.
Seems to me like they have done as much to advance pool as any other group. Granted, they aren't for everybody, but that doesn't make them bad. I have played APA for years. I accept that there will be some jerks and loud mouths around. So what. Same thing happens when I go to a football game, a race, or even out to eat.. Such is life.
For me, APA allows me to get out and compete on a regular basis. I don't really care what my opponent does, or even why he or she plays. They don't bother me. When I run a rack, that's all the satisfaction I need.
Steve
Freddy the Beard on Reyes....
" if it happens 200 times in a row it cant be a coincidence ". Stand up for the APA all you want there is no way that there are so many complaints from all over the country and all the people are just conspireing against the good old APA. Ive been to Vegas 7 times in 5 years, have heard horor stories about things that have gone on, it flat out isnt right, there system is screwed up. This current problem is a simple matter and should never have gotten this far but once again the APA ( even if it is a LO call its still the APA, its their brand he's representing) has scratched on the 9...
" if it happens 200 times in a row it cant be a coincidence ". Stand up for the APA all you want there is no way that there are so many complaints from all over the country and all the people are just conspireing against the good old APA. Ive been to Vegas 7 times in 5 years, have heard horor stories about things that have gone on, it flat out isnt right, there system is screwed up. This current problem is a simple matter and should never have gotten this far but once again the APA ( even if it is a LO call its still the APA, its their brand he's representing) has scratched on the 9...
I have been a member of the APA for 12 years. My biggest gripe about any league is the fact that people want to sandbag so they dont go up. This is why its a handicapped in the first place. The best way to solve this problem is to match the players according to their handicap instead of throwing a 2 up against a 7. The 7 will drive up the innings and lose so the 2 goes up and the 7 goes down. This is absolutely ridiculous. I am 5. My goal is to be a 7. I play to the best of my ability at all times. I cant guarantee a win, but I can guarantee 100% effort. My other gripe is this, I just recently moved to Texas. I joined a 8 and 9 ball team there. In all my 12 years of playing in Florida, I have never ever ever had to pay for a game during a match or while practicing before the match. I even got to play 5 nights a week for free. We dont have that luxury here. I spend as much in 2 nights here in Texas as I did in a week in Florida. The league doesnt even give us a prize fund at the end of playoffs. That was one of the biggest reasons I got in the league 12 years ago. But now I just feel like I am throwing my money away and getting nothing out of it. The only way I will win any money at all is if I am lucky enough to win a slot to vegas which I have never been able to do. APA headquarters needs to make it mandatory that the league operators have some type of prize fund for the end of playoffs. I could careless about trophies. I need one of those like I need a hole in the head. The league operators if run properly can make over a 100 grand a year. The guy in Orlando makes around 250 grand. But he also gave us a prize fund plus trophies. Its not like these people cant afford to give us something in return.
Last edited:
The whole concept is a joke and the phrase " everyone can play and anyone can win " is an even bigger one. It is a total knock league anyone that thinks otherwise has obviously never played in it. Now im not saying no one should play because its ok for people to get together and have a good time but if anyone thinks its fair and has delusions of going to Vegas or where ever and not getting screwed at some point you can forget it. In my opinion it in no way is worth the headache that comes with it. Here are a few examples of what I mean. Where I live there are a decent amount of APA players and there is always some kind of drama taking place whether it be someone telling the league operator that someone elses handicap is to high or to low or that someone is " sandbagging " which is my favorite one of all. One rule which should never have been allowed is the sudden death bull$hit. Two teams from here played this past June for 2 days to qualify to go to Vegas and at 1:00 AM Monday they had to play a sudden death match which is one stinking game to decide who goes. If that is not the biggest scam of all then I dont know what is. One game is a crap shoot and who ever thought of this should be banned from ever owning a pool cue. The only winner in the circle is Las Vegas because they get all players sent to them on a platter to put on the " blow your dough show " and then go back home busted. Up until this past year or so the teams that quailified here got around $1800 each or $225 per person if their was 8 players. That dont pay for a ticket let alone your trip. I talked with people in Vegas who said they had their whole way paid for but they also played out of somewhere that gave them added money to go. Another good example of how f-d up the situation is, is when the league operators cant make two balls in a row and are jealous of decent players so they in turn screw them every chance they get. When you take an APA 4 or 5 from a place where there are thousands of players and an APA 7 where there are very few players they are going to play close to the same which is also ridiculous and a great example of how it is far from fair. This is the end of my rant and the information here is from what I have witnessed and others have told me at the National event and may not be true all over the country.
Anyone can Play but not just Anyone can win
Anyone can Play but not just Anyone can win
If everyone realized the first statment then someone would change something.
The Vegas part is kinda a shady area because once you get there its just like a hole to throw money in, unless you get lucky or are one of the way under handicapped teams.
I wasn't really complaining about the APA...more or less just stating some facts, in regards to the "why are they the most popular" statement. I don't hate the APA...it definitely has its fair share of flaws, but so does everything else in life. And while I completely agree that it's not for everyone, it is apparently for some people...and in an area lacking any other options, it is definitely better than nothing.
I do however think threads like this, if viewed with an open mind by the governing body of the APA, can be used in a constructive manner. If they can read stuff like this without getting offended and defensive and can reasonably pick out the worthwhile observations, while just throwing out the rants and petty stuff they would probably be able to make some solid improvements to the system as a whole.
If you have a majority of people complaining about a similar issue or issues...it's probably worth, at the very least, taking a good look at.
The Chipsta
Registered
This is the initial post that has begun the bashing of the APA and Terry and I just had a few points to make:
- Terry has a playoff of the top 4 teams in each Masters division. I have played in one of the divisions for 2 years. You DO have a playoff
- Communication has always been excellent. If you owe money it is on your scoresheet every week. The APA will ask for what you owe.
- You saved yourself some time because your team would probably have gotten smoked by the 2 teams that are heading to Vegas to represent Baltimore and Frederick on Monday.
- Someone else joined in the Terry Justice bashing...who else is setting up 35 (I may have lost count) teams with $5,000 to play in Vegas? Plus 2 Masters teams that each received $2500? When you have developed the largest APA league in the country after over 20 years of dedication, who can question where he spends his hard earned money. If all the money came back to the players, why would anyone want to run a pool league.
I am not asking for all of the money back in return. The way it worked in Florida was first place got something like 1,000 to 1200 for first. 2nd place would get around 800 and 3rd would get around 500. Thats not a lot of money when you consider how much the league operators rake in. You make the comment of why wouldn anyone want to run a pool league if all the money came back? Well why would I as a player want to play in a league where I get nothing for my efforts. I dont want or need a trophy. I want money.
1. I played out of Laurel, MD side pockets and you are free to ask them!
2. Getting smoked is not going to happen. Ask around about me if you like but I am sure you will find at 7 level play I won 7 to 0, 7 to 1, 7 to 3, 7 to 4, and 7 to 6!!! against the best they have.
Also Jackie Robinson the only Winner out of Lee's division in the MEN'S Division EVER can vouch for his former TEAM MATE MIKE WILSON!!!!!!!
Last edited:
Short answer NO! Told its Lee Tiani
May not be him but his staff is aware and can not answer how this is Fair to me?????
Must remember they paid upon notification!
Must remember I joined mid season and was not part of last years team!!!
Must remember they did not successfully contact the team members!!!
Must remember that even thou fully paid points not given despiite earned!!!
Kid
Dynomite
A.k.A
Michael Wilson
Last edited:
APA SUCKS MORE AFTER YOUR POST!
Please note: this poster has ZERO post history and comes on here with this B.S.
At least be a member and have posted before! You come on here and do not know what your talking about and want to push some APA propaganda campaign and I aint buying it!!!!!!!!
Kid Dynomite
Mr. Wilson for anyone that wants to know!!!!!