How good are these guys as seen over in Europe, they have both produced very good stats against some stiff competition, and of the two, who is the better player?
Appleton & Davies
- Thread starter Island Drive
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The Doctor
Registered
Darren Appleton has been a main stay of the english pool scene for as long as I can remember, I'm not a big English pool fan but I'm pretty sure he's been in the final of the world championships an un-godly amount of times without winning it. He's also played a lot of 9 ball on the uk tour with a fair amount of success. The three top players in english pool for a while have been darren Mick Hill and Chris Melling, Ben Davies is not considered as good as these guys an I'm surprised he's doing so well. For those that don't know English pool is played on 6 by 3 tables. With tiny pockets and tiny balls much smaller than the american bar tables. The pockets are also cut like snooker tables making pots down the rail very tricky. Its played with cues with 8mm tips but I have seen as small as 5mm.
I'm not at all surprised that these guys are doing well, they have all been playing 8 ball exclusivly for many a year while also being brought up watching snooker an using an orthodox snooker technique. This gives them an excelent grounding for the IPT given the slow cloth, tight pockets, an lack of jump cues. Its just the break that will always be letting them down. If you watched Darren in his match against Stalev for a place in the last six at the last IPT if the guy could only have got a ball down occsasionally he would surley have won that match.
I'm not at all surprised that these guys are doing well, they have all been playing 8 ball exclusivly for many a year while also being brought up watching snooker an using an orthodox snooker technique. This gives them an excelent grounding for the IPT given the slow cloth, tight pockets, an lack of jump cues. Its just the break that will always be letting them down. If you watched Darren in his match against Stalev for a place in the last six at the last IPT if the guy could only have got a ball down occsasionally he would surley have won that match.
The Doctor said:
Yep......Darren's break is appalling
......So appalling that in this tournament his "break and run" statistics so far are:-1..... 31 B & R frames won,only two players in the event have B & R more frames (Ortmann 35 and Bustamente 32)
2..... 47% of frames won by him are "break and run",only one player in this event has a better percentage (Ortmann 51%)
Even Darren would admit that things can always be improved,including his break, but lets not lose perspective
Ben Davies is a big young lad and can give 'em a smack but his break will improve.Currently he stands B & R 20 frames out of 70 frames won which isn't too shabby for someone who's only played a handful of American 8 ball matches on American equipment prior to Reno.
Appleton is seen as being at the very top of the tree - Davies is not at that level in the 'English' game, but he's really doing well here.
For those of you who haven't ever seen the English game of 8-ball, here is a short clip from YouTube I found featuring non other than Ben Nunan who played this week in Reno - not great angle or quality, but you will at least get the idea!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__WgyPpF3As
For those of you who haven't ever seen the English game of 8-ball, here is a short clip from YouTube I found featuring non other than Ben Nunan who played this week in Reno - not great angle or quality, but you will at least get the idea!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__WgyPpF3As
Just one thing, English Pool on the Pro circuit is played on 7" by 3.5" tables these days and most of the TV matches are played on 8" by 4".
Yes, Darren, Mick and Chris really are class, its great to see the boys making a mark on the bigger tables.
Yes, Darren, Mick and Chris really are class, its great to see the boys making a mark on the bigger tables.
O
onepocketchump
Guest
yep - the english boys are doing good - care to put team england against team phillipines in a little all around competition? Say some 9-ball, 8 ball, one pocket, banks, rotation, english poolm snooker and billiards? I think I'd still bet the farm on team phillipines to take down the cash.
I am highly impressed with the english on the IPT so far but I don't feel that it's much of a stretch for them to excel at a game that they already predominately play. I would even venture to say that the IPT equipment is easier than the english 8-ball tables. So they might even have an advantage coming from harder equipment.
I was suprised to see that english 8-ball has such an organised following. See, even I can learn something new every day.
John
I am highly impressed with the english on the IPT so far but I don't feel that it's much of a stretch for them to excel at a game that they already predominately play. I would even venture to say that the IPT equipment is easier than the english 8-ball tables. So they might even have an advantage coming from harder equipment.
I was suprised to see that english 8-ball has such an organised following. See, even I can learn something new every day.
John
I agree the Brits have done well but are still a little way behind the Filipino guys.
I am wondering how many more UK 8-ballers will make the move and try their luck in future qualifiers after seeing how well the others have done? The 8-ballers are far better suited (imho) to make the shift to IPT than the pro snooker players, but I do expect to see more of them tempted into trying their hand in future too.
I am wondering how many more UK 8-ballers will make the move and try their luck in future qualifiers after seeing how well the others have done? The 8-ballers are far better suited (imho) to make the shift to IPT than the pro snooker players, but I do expect to see more of them tempted into trying their hand in future too.
And Jayson Shaw has played it for 8 weeks... 
gopi-1 said:
Yep thats why Efren has 4 world titles!
There's a lot to be said for praticing snooker or playing on tighter pockets in general, many of the 8 ballers like Hill, Melling etc probably dreamed of pro snooker careers before turning to 8 ball.
In the infamous AZ snooker debate a certain well known member of AZ actually said something along the lines of "Do they play 8 ball in England", that was the point that I realised I was wasting my time!
O
onepocketchump
Guest
watchez said:Then shouldn't all IPT players forget about buying a Diamond with blue cloth and go out and get a snooker table or a 3 x 6 bar table.
That's why I said "possibly" harder. I have played on the pub tables in England with the rounded pocket corners. They are definitly different, in some respects harder and in some respects easier. You aren't going to touch the rail going in and make very many balls.
These guys have to learn to pocket extremely accurately and to run out with clusters.
In fact, I'd be willing to bet $10,000 that if your Masters team went to England right now and played them on their equipment the same race to 13that they would blow you out of the water.
It's easier to play on the Diamond and Valley bar tables than it is to play on English 8 Ball tables. While all the Master players are runout players there is no way that you can tell me that Chuck, Lars and Andy are going to be able to go to England and beat these guys on their tables right away. On the reverse though any of the top guys over there are even money against anyone on your Masters team anytime they play 8 ball on a Diamond or Valley bar table.
Just my opinon, but I'd bet ten dimes on it even though I know HOW STRONG your team is.
John
I agree with you 100% onepocketchump. Daz and Mick would be virtually unbeatable on an english pool table on a race to 7 or more except from an experienced english pool player. There is no way on earth an american pool player could get anywhere near them at that game. I would bet my house, car, everything I own on that!
Yet on the American tables they have every chance, in fact they are favourites in my opinion, and you only have to look at their stats on the IPT for proof. Show me anyone in the world with more solid patterns at 8 ball than these two and I'll take my hat off to you. I expect both of them to be top 16 on the IPT at the end of the season.
Yet on the American tables they have every chance, in fact they are favourites in my opinion, and you only have to look at their stats on the IPT for proof. Show me anyone in the world with more solid patterns at 8 ball than these two and I'll take my hat off to you. I expect both of them to be top 16 on the IPT at the end of the season.
onepocketchump said:
I don't know where you got the impression that I disagree. That is why I said get a snooker table & go practice. Or go to the Phillipines & buy a table Efren grew up on as you always hear how bad the equipment is back there. Jason Kirkwood LOST to Appleton back in May in Vegas. Do you think there are many Americans that play better bar table 8 ball than Jason? No offense to my friends, but I would bet on Jason playing each of them. They would all agree. Appleton, Hill, Boyles are definitely elite players but still nits in my mind for coming to the BCA to try and win a team tournament.
I wonder who sponsors these english players. Are they government sponsored?
watchez said:
Really? and here we go again with the Nits. Well lets see if its all talk. You said you would back your boys so put your money where your mouth is...and by the way, Daz and Mick both said Jason Kirkwood is a class act and thats all I need to hear.
Get your plane tickets, cues and green and get over here asap. Match waiting for you.
Simon D'Vali
England