Appleton Suspension?

jay helfert said:
Not like you Stu to fail to do your research before posting. You are a good advocate for Matchroom. I'll grant you that. The fact that you failed to admit that Matchroom did not pay for the player's lodging, instead only deleting it from your original post is a dodgy response imo. This was the basis of my point in saying that the $1,750 guarantee barely covers travel expenses for many of the players. You may want to go back and amend your post again, since sixteen of the twenty four players had to win two matches to be guaranteed $3,750. You left that part out, unless you think that only the eight seeded players deserve mention.

I am just trying to be realistic about what they are doing or not doing on behalf of the players. We already know how one sided their contracts can be, and that was cause for concern many months ago. The good payday that you called it in truth was a subsidy for their travel expenses. No more, no less. Once again, more and better professional tournaments, with the accompanying media coverage is a good thing for pool and its players. The World Pool Masters was a nice perk for a select group of players, who now must stay an extra week in a very expensive locale before beginning their next event. Maybe this is the direction MR is headed, to smaller mostly invitational tournaments that are easier to produce logistically, somewhat similar to what is the norm in many of their snooker events.

Like you, for the most part I like what I see happening in pro pool today, with some reservations that I have noted earlier. Let's just see how it all shakes out in the end. Who knows they might get me off my ass to produce another L.A. Open! We paid out over $300,000 in real prize money nearly thirty years ago before Don Maggot came along to spoil the party. .
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Yup, I dogged that one, Jay, but within five minutes of my post, another AZ member PMed me to correct. Once I learned it was wrong, I corrected it immediately. Extremely few would have seen the original post, and you were among them, but because I had amended significantly from its original content, I took note of the fact that it had been amended at the end of the post. Agreed that getting the research wrong was inexcusable, but I do try hard to minimize such errors.

FYI, there is another solid event between the World Pool Masters and the UK Open, but it's not a Matchroom production and I just don't know the name of it.

It doesn't appear to me that Matchroom is heading in the direction of more invitationals, although they added one in 2021 with the Premier Pool League event. They are producing two new events for 2022, namely the UK Open (starts a week from today) and the European Open in November. Each has a field of 256 and a prize fund of roughly 200,000.

Finally, if you do the LA Open again, I might offer you a little financial support. Let me know.
 
jay helfert said:
I like this post. ;)

P.S. In my interview with 60 Minutes (originally set to air in April and postponed until September due to their coverage of the crises in Ukraine), I began by saying that Fedor Gorst just won $90,000 in the month of January alone (the interview was in February). Of course everything went sideways for him after that.
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Very pleased to hear this. If the "60 Minutes" piece succeeds in painting a picture of pro pool as a potentially lucrative career, the game will benefit greatly. I'm looking forward to it.
 
chefjeff said:
Trust lost. This affects more than just the player.

They're adults, not little kids. It's 2022, not 1970. The war on (some) drugs is over and the drugs won.
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I don't know.... If we want to pretend pool is a sport then we should hold our "athletes" to the same scrunity others on the world stage enjoy. No one needs to agree with me on this one. I just personally have clean athlete role models, than crack addict junkies taking time outs for a fix to calm their nerves.
 
The_JV said:
I don't know.... If we want to pretend pool is a sport then we should hold our "athletes" to the same scrunity others on the world stage enjoy. No one needs to agree with me on this one. I just personally have clean athlete role models, than crack addict junkies taking time outs for a fix to calm their nerves.
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Is that a real problem?

Pool creates its own problems for some reason. It has enough already, but let's create more! yeah, that'll fix it.

Play pool, Fast Eddie,


Jeff Livingston
 
Oze147 said:
But in my opinion MR`s value for the players goes far beyond prize money.
It is the TV time on and off the table, it is social media coverage and the creation of the positive image as athletes and sports personalities.
These are the modern tools for pool players to generate a solid income.
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I see it this way too. There is lots of added value.
 
The_JV said:
I don't know.... If we want to pretend pool is a sport then we should hold our "athletes" to the same scrunity others on the world stage enjoy. No one needs to agree with me on this one. I just personally have clean athlete role models, than crack addict junkies taking time outs for a fix to calm their nerves.
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Should pool have more strict drug testing than the NFL, MLB, NHL, and NBA?
 
sjm said:
Yup, I dogged that one, Jay, but within five minutes of my post, another AZ member PMed me to correct. Once I learned it was wrong, I corrected it immediately. Extremely few would have seen the original post, and you were among them, but because I had amended significantly from its original content, I took note of the fact that it had been amended at the end of the post. Agreed that getting the research wrong was inexcusable, but I do try hard to minimize such errors.

FYI, there is another solid event between the World Pool Masters and the UK Open, but it's not a Matchroom production and I just don't know the name of it.

It doesn't appear to me that Matchroom is heading in the direction of more invitationals, although they added one in 2021 with the Premier Pool League event. They are producing two new events for 2022, namely the UK Open (starts a week from today) and the European Open in November. Each has a field of 256 and a prize fund of roughly 200,000.

Finally, if you do the LA Open again, I might offer you a little financial support. Let me know.
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Stu, you are a man of honor and honesty.

Respect!
Eric 😃
 
When the fans, using drugs, can outperform the athletes, the drug fiasco will wane.

That's my ultimate theory for how it ends.



Jeff Livingston
 
MattPoland said:
I don’t mind WADA. It could relax on pot but overall it’s good for pool to keep its nose clean if it wants to grow as a professional and commercially viable sport.
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Right on, brother. WADA has its place, and I favor the testing, although I strongly feel it needs to be handled in a way that doesn't compromise the integrity of competitions in progress.

In America, in both baseball and football, we have seen what use of performance enhancing drugs by some does, and while it does cause deaths on rarest of occasion (such as Ken Caminiti of the Houston Astors or Lyle Alzado of the Denver Broncos), that's not the big issue. The larger problem is that the performance-enhancing drug culture of these and other sports caused far too many who would otherwise not have partaken to believe that it was the only way to remain competitive and, in countless cases, keep their job. Both baseball and football have made significant strides in dealing with these problems, but there's still quite a way to go.

I agree with those who feel that WADA compliance needs a rewrite, and that certain substances presently banned should not be disallowed. A new definition of "performance enhancing" is needed. Pool players, if they unite, are in a position to help steer and support such an effort, but for now, the rules are the rules, and those who sign the WPA contract, which calls for WADA compliance, must abide by current WADA testing guidelines and the WADA list of disallowed substances.

Hoping for the best.
 
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Oze147 said:
Since I don`t really know how much expences pro players have, I can`t comment on prize money, entry fees and if MR`s 1750$ is a good or bad deal for the players.

But in my opinion MR`s value for the players goes far beyond prize money.
It is the TV time on and off the table, it is social media coverage and the creation of the positive image as athletes and sports personalities.
These are the modern tools for pool players to generate a solid income.

My two prime examples for people, who make a living being in the pool world are Ralph Eckert and Jasmine Ouschan.
They are two very good players, but they are no all time greats, no big money winners.
But during their prime years, they were able to position themselves as true ambassadors for our sports.
Books, TV shows, coaching lessons, sponsors outside of pool...this is what other pros should aim for.
Prize money is just the icing on the cake.
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As usual, an exceptional post from one of AZB's most insightful posters.
 
sjm said:
Right on, brother. WADA has its place, and I favor the testing, although I strongly feel it needs to be handled in a way that doesn't compromise the integrity of competitions in progress.

In America, in both baseball and football, we have seen what use of performance enhancing drugs by some does, and while it does cause deaths on rarest of occasion (such as Ken Caminiti or the Houston Astors or Lyle Alzado of the Denver Broncos), that's not the big issue. The larger problem is that the performance-enhancing drug culture of these and other sports caused far too many who would otherwise not have partaken to believe that it was the only way to remain competitive and, in countless cases, keep their job. Both baseball and football have made significant strides in dealing with these problems, but there's still quite a way to go.

I agree with those who feel that WADA compliance needs a rewrite, and that certain substances presently banned should not be disallowed. A new definition of "performance enhancing" is needed. Pool players, if they unite, are in a position to help steer and support such an effort, but for now, the rules are the rules, and those who sign the WPA contract, which calls for WADA compliance, must abide by current WADA testing guidelines and the WADA list of disallowed substances.

Hoping for the best.
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Unless things have changed vastly NFL players are shot full of shit by the team doctors. Race horses aren't allowed on the track with a fraction of what NFL players got before every game and at halftime. Those that went off the field and came back weren't given a lollipop while in the locker room either. I haven't watched the NFL in ten years so maybe my info is outdated but legal doping has made many a career possible, and destroyed others.

I do think pool players need to be held to the highest standard simply because we have a negative image to overcome. It might not be particularly fair but public image has little to do with fairness. The days of smoking and drinking during televised matches are gone, or should be. The old matches are funny to watch now. Even in one of them I chuckled to see Jennie sitting in the front row discreetly passing Keith a beer for a quick slug now and then. Apparently a beer can wasn't allowed on Keith's table or perhaps there was a sponsor conflict.

I don't know of any other activity that has had as many opportunities as men's pro pool in the US, and blown them all. Things seem to be looking up again, hopefully a few foolish people won't bring things crashing down yet again.

A side note for those thinking that testing should no longer include pot: Pot remains illegal under federal law. As such, it should remain a banned substance. If and when the feds declare it legal then it should no longer be tested for.

Hu
 
sjm said:
Yup, I dogged that one, Jay, but within five minutes of my post, another AZ member PMed me to correct. Once I learned it was wrong, I corrected it immediately. Extremely few would have seen the original post, and you were among them, but because I had amended significantly from its original content, I took note of the fact that it had been amended at the end of the post. Agreed that getting the research wrong was inexcusable, but I do try hard to minimize such errors.

FYI, there is another solid event between the World Pool Masters and the UK Open, but it's not a Matchroom production and I just don't know the name of it.

It doesn't appear to me that Matchroom is heading in the direction of more invitationals, although they added one in 2021 with the Premier Pool League event. They are producing two new events for 2022, namely the UK Open (starts a week from today) and the European Open in November. Each has a field of 256 and a prize fund of roughly 200,000.

Finally, if you do the LA Open again, I might offer you a little financial support. Let me know.
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Made me realize I dogged it on ‘expenses paid’ also….got it from another source. :(
 
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