Applying sidespin with low-deflection shafts

M

mincho

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So I just bought a new 314-2 shaft. Previously I shot just fine with a standard maple shaft, and this new shaft is rattling my cage. What method to apply sidespin do you guys recommend? I used to use backhand english on my maple shaft very effectively.

So, are there any advice, tips, or stories you can share about you readjusting to a low deflection shaft? It truly is a much different experience.
 
mincho said:
So I just bought a new 314-2 shaft. Previously I shot just fine with a standard maple shaft, and this new shaft is rattling my cage. What method to apply sidespin do you guys recommend? I used to use backhand english on my maple shaft very effectively.

So, are there any advice, tips, or stories you can share about you readjusting to a low deflection shaft? It truly is a much different experience.
Click to expand...

Try using parallel english with the Low Deflection shafts and see how that works for you.
 
Re: Parallel english

dr9ball said:
Try using parallel english with the Low Deflection shafts and see how that works for you.
Click to expand...

Actually, parallel english does seem to work best for me, but it just feels so strange. Using backhand english on a 314-2, you need a pivot point of approximately 12" (11.8" according to the platinum billiards test).

Isn't using parallel english generally not recommended to use?
 
mincho said:
Actually, parallel english does seem to work best for me, but it just feels so strange. Using backhand english on a 314-2, you need a pivot point of approximately 12" (11.8" according to the platinum billiards test).

Isn't using parallel english generally not recommended to use?
Click to expand...

With parallel english you're going to have to compensate for squirt even with a LD shaft, just not as much as you would with a higher squirt shaft.
For some, they may do this automatically and not believe they have compensated at all with their LD shafts.

There are advocates of both parallel english and back hand english. Each with reasons why their method works for them and others.

The solution for my game was to play with the original shafts that come from my cuemakers. I do not care for the Low Deflection Shafts. Pool equipment like many things in life is largely a matter of personal preference.

For me, a new shaft isn't going to make me play any better. Deliberate practice on my fundamentals will help my game more than any shaft I can buy. The "Mother Drills" are wonderful for this.

Anything you change in the way you aim/line up the shot/ hold your cue, stroke your cue/ grip etc. is going to feel strange till you make it a part of your game and that takes practice.


I hope you find a solution that works for you.
 
When I got my 314 it took me about 6 hours to become comfortable with the shaft, and then another week before I had erased the std shaft muscle memory. That is: just give it time, and it will come ....
 
Practice, practice, practice. It will take some time to get used to, but you'll get the hang of it.
 
Front hand english anyone?

Do any of you use front hand english with LD shafts? How much do you shift over? I hear pros use a combination of front-hand and back-hand english..
 
You've been assimilated. It's too late to go back now. You'll spend the rest of your pool-playing days adapting to the new shaft.

Stare at this for a few minutes every day--it won't fix you, but it will put you in the right mindset for your future:

black_dots_illusion.gif
 
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Please explain what front hand, back hand and parallel english is. I'm only familiar with follow, draw and side.
 
OUSooner said:
Please explain what front hand, back hand and parallel english is. I'm only familiar with follow, draw and side.
Click to expand...

These videos should help

http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/normal_videos/new/NVB-24.htm

thanks to Joe Tucker and Dr.Dave for providing us with great free billiard resources

Mincho I only use Back Hand English with my predator Z2. Learning to compensate will take time regardless what shaft you are using. Practice simple shots repeatedly with 1 tip ,2 tip and so on. The stroke you put on the shot also will play a major factor in the result. Best of luck.
 
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What I do is:

aim shot like normal
get down like centre CB hit
while I'm addressing CB (sliding hand toward CB) I move my bridge hand to place tip where I want english.
I shoot.


To practice the bridge length, start with full ball hits up the middle of table. You want to hit a stop shot while playing siding. If you can play left and right on the CB and hit a stop shot, you have the perfect bridge length. If the CB deflects (doesn't stop and spin like a top), make bridge shorter or longer and try again. Once you have this shot, you can aim everything like a centre ball hit. This is shaft deflection corrected.

Now, throw! Depending how hard you are hitting, you will have to adjust. I just aim to the left or right side of pocket. The easier I hit the more I adjust my aim.
 
mincho said:
So I just bought a new 314-2 shaft. Previously I shot just fine with a standard maple shaft, and this new shaft is rattling my cage. What method to apply sidespin do you guys recommend? I used to use backhand english on my maple shaft very effectively.

So, are there any advice, tips, or stories you can share about you readjusting to a low deflection shaft? It truly is a much different experience.
Click to expand...

I would suggest finding the pivot point of your 314-2 (and please post it here when you do), and focus on pivoting around it. If the pivot point is longer than your comfortable bridge length, you will need to use a combination of FHE and BHE.

Joe Tucker has a good video on this concept at joetucker.net
 
mincho said:
So I just bought a new 314-2 shaft. Previously I shot just fine with a standard maple shaft, and this new shaft is rattling my cage. What method to apply sidespin do you guys recommend? I used to use backhand english on my maple shaft very effectively.

So, are there any advice, tips, or stories you can share about you readjusting to a low deflection shaft? It truly is a much different experience.
Click to expand...

So right now, with the low-deflection shaft, backhand english (aim centerball and then pivot about your bridge hand until the tip is where you want it and then stroke straight along the new line) causes you to hit outside english shots too thin and inside english shots too fat.

Here's one thing you might want to try.

Aim centerball

Do a parallel shift until the tip is about halfway to where it needs to go.

Do your old "backhand english" from there.

If you continue to hit outside english shots too thin, then parallel shift to a little more than halfway.

Or if instead you now hit the outside english shots too fat, change the parallel shift to a little less than halfway.

Play with this until it works, and then just try it for a while.
 
mincho said:
So I just bought a new 314-2 shaft. Previously I shot just fine with a standard maple shaft, and this new shaft is rattling my cage. What method to apply sidespin do you guys recommend? I used to use backhand english on my maple shaft very effectively.

So, are there any advice, tips, or stories you can share about you readjusting to a low deflection shaft? It truly is a much different experience.
Click to expand...

The first time I tried a Predator shaft I never did get used to it and I gave up and sold the shaft. A friend of mine kept telling me I made a mistake and I should give Predators another try. I finally agreed with him that I didn't give the shaft enough effort to learn how to play with it. I bought another Predator and worked with it until it felt right to me. That was a few years ago and i've never looked back. A combination of Predator shafts (I have 7 of them matched to different cues) and an aiming system that I learned from the same friend have raised my game and confidence a lot. Now when I play a strong player i'm not as nervous because I know I can make the shots more consistently that used to give me trouble before I started using predators. I like a Sniper tip on my 314-2 shafts........

Don't give up on the predator and you'll be glad that you didn't. Aim and forget about deflection and you'll soon find out how well they play.......

James
 
I stand behind the shot, make the decision as to what english is going to be needed,

line it up viewing the cb intersecting with the ob at some particular position,

slowly drop down on the shot with the tip in position to provide the english I decided I need ,

do my warm up strokes,

pause and shoot.
 
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mikepage said:
So right now, with the low-deflection shaft, backhand english (aim centerball and then pivot about your bridge hand until the tip is where you want it and then stroke straight along the new line) causes you to hit outside english shots too thin and inside english shots too fat.

Here's one thing you might want to try.

Aim centerball

Do a parallel shift until the tip is about halfway to where it needs to go.

Do your old "backhand english" from there.

If you continue to hit outside english shots too thin, then parallel shift to a little more than halfway.

Or if instead you now hit the outside english shots too fat, change the parallel shift to a little less than halfway.

Play with this until it works, and then just try it for a while.
Click to expand...

Thanks Mike and other posters for your insights. This is what I was looking for.. some sort of guidance of what to practice. I'm eager to try this on the table later.

For those who only use back-hand english with LD shafts: Is there really much of an advantage with an LD shaft? I mean, you have to have a longer bridge length (compared to a standard shaft) which potentially makes shooting more difficult.
 
mincho:
For those who only use back-hand english with LD shafts: Is there really much of an advantage with an LD shaft? I mean, you have to have a longer bridge length (compared to a standard shaft) which potentially makes shooting more difficult.
Click to expand...

This is yet another example of aimers thinking they're doing one thing but actually doing something else. BHE is not an exact system even if you can pivot exactly at your shaft's "natural pivot point" - because swerve (and therefore cue elevation, shot speed, distance and equipment conditions) always comes into play with sidespin, changing the "effective pivot point".

BHE isn't an aiming system; it's a squirt-adjustment system. But it's like most aiming systems in the sense that it can get you closer to the final aim needed, but will only rarely get you to the exact aim needed without making some final adjustment "by feel".

pj
chgo

P.S. There's no such thing as parallel english.
 
I use a combination of parallel and backhand english. Really I use a pivot point of about 18". But I do it without thinking about it.

You better switch back before it's too late. You'll never be able to shoot with a bar cue again.
 
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