I know just how you feel. I actually play with a McDermott too, just recently started trying the 314-2. I think if you give the Z2 time you will see improvements. Just remember it took you a while to learn how to compensate for squirt and swerve with your standard shaft.
Applying sidespin with low-deflection shafts
- Thread starter mincho
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I know just how you feel. I actually play with a McDermott too, just recently started trying the 314-2. I think if you give the Z2 time you will see improvements. Just remember it took you a while to learn how to compensate for squirt and swerve with your standard shaft.
????
You start a thread asking for advice on low deflection shafts and then start giving advice on the same topic in the same thread?
I have been using an OB1 Shaft now for a good 5 weeks solid, played 2 tournaments with it, as well as 80+ hours in practice, and as much as its a good product, the whole LD shaft malarky just isnt for me. Sure, the shots you can do with the shaft are pretty good to see, but for me, simple pool is best to watch and play and the way I have been playing since starting. Having played with Maple shafts for 3-3.5 years, practicing on average 15hours per week, changing to a LD shaft was probably the worst mistake in my pool playing career.
I now understand why some people may like LD shafts.
I agree with the guy who posted something along the lines of 'if a player is confident in the gear he is using, then only good things can happen' - Im confident with my Maple shafts, and wont be trying LD shafts again.
I now understand why some people may like LD shafts.
I agree with the guy who posted something along the lines of 'if a player is confident in the gear he is using, then only good things can happen' - Im confident with my Maple shafts, and wont be trying LD shafts again.
LD shafts aren't for everyone, but in my case the LD shafts and learning a new way to aim raised my game to another level. I struggled my whole pool playing life trying to figure out deflection and I found it to be a guessing game. I would get down on a medium hard cut shot, a fair amount of distance, and needing side spin to get back up table for my next shot and I didn't know how much to allow for deflection so I guessed and sometimes it worked and sometimes I went to my chair because I missed. I don't make all of my shots with my Predator 314-2, but now I don't have to guess on how to hit a shot with side spin, I aim and shoot without having to guess for deflection.
My first try with an older 314 shaft failed, but I gave them another try later and i'm sold on how these shafts play and a lot of pro players are sold on them also. If they were magical shafts all of the pro players would use them, but they aren't and that's why I said they aren't for everyone.
James
I have a similar experience, except that I'm doing all kinds of guesswork with my new 314-2 shaft. I know how to work with my standard McDermott shaft and play better comparatively, but I'm really interested in how much a 314-2 could help my game. Obviously it's a very long learning process. I'm sure I spent months learning on my standard shaft, so if I applied that same time I'm curious how I will fare with the 314-2.
I can fairly say that I overestimated the importance or effects of a low deflection shaft. With that said, I can still see some advantages and I plan to give my 314-2 some time. Right now I can use parallel english and BHE but honestly parallel english feels so wrong, even if I do make the shot.
I know Earl shot with an OB1 and decided it wasn't for him and went back to a standard shaft like you did. Then again, pros like John Schmidt seem to love the OB1 (I'm pretty sure that's what I heard). Anyway, thanks for sharing.
That's going to be really hard to measure accurately because to get a valid inference you're going to have to somehow discount the improvement that would come from just practice itself. You might shoot better if you took the same amount of time to diligently practice with your standard shaft.
Given that you can't really seperate yourself into two players and give one the standard shaft and one the LD shaft, you may never know the true impact the LD shaft has on your game.
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Good point about the "radial consistency" a radial-laminate LD shaft can provide. However, I think the main benefit of the radial laminate is: the shaft is less likely to warp over time.
Concerning squirt consistency, I disagree. I've done some tests with a non-radial laminate shaft, which should have a strong "spine," and the squirt did not change with cue twist angle. For more info, see my February '08 BD article.
FYI, I now have long lists of both advantages and disadvantages of low-squirt (AKA low cue-ball deflection, AKA low deflection, AKA LD) shafts, along with links to supporting resources, here:
Check them out.
Regards,
Dave
I've never analyzed my aiming system with respect to side-spin before. I guess I'm more of an intuitive player. When brought to think about it, I don't pivot, but move parallel to the natural line (i.e. my hand moves with the cue) then adjust my aim for the deflection, swerve and throw.
Thanks all for the great links. I also found that I naturally "gear" most cut shots where appropriate with outside english. I always knew it made my cuts more reliable, but it's nice having confirmation.
With respect to LD shafts. I've played with a couple Predator shafts and really came away unimpressed. I didn't find them superior to any decent shaft from Pechaur, Schon, Schuler etc. If anything I found the lack of deflection a detriment to some rail and close quarters shots where some lateral travel is advantageous.
Thanks all for the great links. I also found that I naturally "gear" most cut shots where appropriate with outside english. I always knew it made my cuts more reliable, but it's nice having confirmation.
With respect to LD shafts. I've played with a couple Predator shafts and really came away unimpressed. I didn't find them superior to any decent shaft from Pechaur, Schon, Schuler etc. If anything I found the lack of deflection a detriment to some rail and close quarters shots where some lateral travel is advantageous.
That would be using inside english?
In an earlier post you mentioned you use front hand english on slow follow shots. I tried this with awesome results.. it was like a completely new cue. Thanks for that tip.
Most shots work better for me with a LD shaft. About the only ones that are harder are the ones where squirt is used to help--like a more-than-90-degrees-frozen-to-the-rail cut.
LD isn't new, you know. When I ordered my OB-1 from Royce, we talked briefly about how long ago (20 years?) we were both drilling holes in shafts, and such. I think it was 25 years ago when Bob Jewett told me he was going to experiment with gluing a tip directly onto his (10.5mm?) Balabushka shaft--without a ferrule. Long before that, lots of old-timers were sanding their shafts down to almost snooker proportions.
I shot with a thick, custom Hubler before I quit playing almost 18 years ago, but now that I'm playing again, I have 3 different LD shafts. If I can adjust, so can you.
As a side note, sometimes shafts will surprise you. A friend has an older Franklin Southwest cue with a shaft that blows us both away. As accurate as any modern LD. More spin, more easily than any other shaft either of us has ever tried. We even switched butts a few times--just in case. Played just as well on another other custom butt from a local cue maker. Played the same with the butt from one of the cues Gabe's dad made. I wanted to dissect it!
Although not quite as good, my wife's Joss has similar characteristics--just a lucky shaft, I guess.
LD isn't new, you know. When I ordered my OB-1 from Royce, we talked briefly about how long ago (20 years?) we were both drilling holes in shafts, and such. I think it was 25 years ago when Bob Jewett told me he was going to experiment with gluing a tip directly onto his (10.5mm?) Balabushka shaft--without a ferrule. Long before that, lots of old-timers were sanding their shafts down to almost snooker proportions.
I shot with a thick, custom Hubler before I quit playing almost 18 years ago, but now that I'm playing again, I have 3 different LD shafts. If I can adjust, so can you.
As a side note, sometimes shafts will surprise you. A friend has an older Franklin Southwest cue with a shaft that blows us both away. As accurate as any modern LD. More spin, more easily than any other shaft either of us has ever tried. We even switched butts a few times--just in case. Played just as well on another other custom butt from a local cue maker. Played the same with the butt from one of the cues Gabe's dad made. I wanted to dissect it!
Although not quite as good, my wife's Joss has similar characteristics--just a lucky shaft, I guess.
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You're welcome.
FYI, results will vary some with shot speed, shot distance, table conditions, and cue elevation, per:
Regards,
Dave
Squirt doesn't "help" with that shot - you just aim a little differently, like any shot with more or less squirt.
This is like the claim that squirt "helps" to make the CB go around an obstacle ball for swerve (small masse) shots. This isn't true either - you just aim a little differently.
pj
chgo
Squerve- Parallel English - Ain't - Give it up.
Patrick,
I understand what you are saying and don't disagree but I am afraid that MOST people have come to understand that shifting their cue close to the original aiming line, while simultaneously mentally adjusting for squirt and swerve, place the cue tip where it needs to be to make the shot and get the cue ball action they are looking for and no matter what you try to call it, it will be considered parallel English.
This is like trying to get people to not use the word ain't because it isn't standard English. Your will wear out all of your treads before you convince the population that there is no such thing as parallel English.
If you can come up with a different word for it like you did for sqirve, I will tweak it and make it acceptable to the masses.
Patrick,
I understand what you are saying and don't disagree but I am afraid that MOST people have come to understand that shifting their cue close to the original aiming line, while simultaneously mentally adjusting for squirt and swerve, place the cue tip where it needs to be to make the shot and get the cue ball action they are looking for and no matter what you try to call it, it will be considered parallel English.
This is like trying to get people to not use the word ain't because it isn't standard English. Your will wear out all of your treads before you convince the population that there is no such thing as parallel English.
If you can come up with a different word for it like you did for sqirve, I will tweak it and make it acceptable to the masses.
But as soon as you get the "masses" to understand squerve, then we will need to talk about throw, which is much more complicated (and unimportant for many shots).Patrick,
I understand what you are saying and don't disagree but I am afraid that MOST people have come to understand that shifting their cue close to the original aiming line, while simultaneously mentally adjusting for squirt and swerve, place the cue tip where it needs to be to make the shot and get the cue ball action they are looking for and no matter what you try to call it, it will be considered parallel English.
This is like trying to get people to not use the word ain't because it isn't standard English. Your will wear out all of your treads before you convince the population that there is no such thing as parallel English.
If you can come up with a different word for it like you did for sqirve, I will tweak it and make it acceptable to the masses.
:grin-square:Regards,
Dave
I use to play with out a Ld shaft and ive always been the type of player
that always using some kind of right or left spin especially on a bar table.
Just didn't like turning whitey loose.Once i switched to the 314 shaft
i noticed that my aiming had to change a little.Now that i am used to it
i will never go back.You can get used to any type of shaft but once your
used to a LD shaft its just feel's like your doing a lot less adjusting.
I also use a type of english that is never really talk about and im not
even sure theirs a name for it.As i shot straight through the center of
the cue ball i wipe in the intended direction of my desired spin.
This is how i have always put spin on the ball.It may not be the
correct way but it works for me.
that always using some kind of right or left spin especially on a bar table.
Just didn't like turning whitey loose.Once i switched to the 314 shaft
i noticed that my aiming had to change a little.Now that i am used to it
i will never go back.You can get used to any type of shaft but once your
used to a LD shaft its just feel's like your doing a lot less adjusting.
I also use a type of english that is never really talk about and im not
even sure theirs a name for it.As i shot straight through the center of
the cue ball i wipe in the intended direction of my desired spin.
This is how i have always put spin on the ball.It may not be the
correct way but it works for me.
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In regards to throw, someone must have known that one day the pool forum would be discussing alcohol and drug abuse and they previously threw out "squervo". Not sure if it caught on but it has a nice ring to it.