Aramith balls in diswasher

swest

swest

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Silver Member
So I had read various threads (it has been a while, but I think I got a good cross-section of views on the subject) regarding the negative consequences of putting your balls (pool balls!) in the dishwasher.

As I recall, these threads carried the caveat that diswashing detergent contains chemicals that are injurious to the finish on aramith phenolic resin.

Well, I had some spots left on the balls (from using a Brillianize-like product) that I just was unable to polish off. So I thought, hey, that stuff (Brillianize) is water soluble, so I'll put the balls in the dishwasher with a couple of drops of regular dish soap (not too much, or the thing will overflow with suds), and let 'er rip. It'll be fine, because I'm not using Cascade!

Nope.

The balls came out very clean, but severely mottled in appearance. Kinda faded, only not uniformly faded, but really ugly faded...

I put them into the polisher with Aramith's 'restorer' product (the blue-green tinted one), and they came out feeling and playing really nicely... but still looking really ugly.

Thoughts?

I just didn't expect such a dramatic change in appearance using only dish soap...
 
I have been using this set (these are Centennials) for the past 6 years, or so... and, I have another set, that I got for a bargain price, as a backup. So, at this point it's more of a severe annoyance than a total catastrophe.

Like I said, after polishing, they play normally... they just don't look good any more.

And, yes, experiment on one before jumping off the bridge. :o

Any ideas what was the causative agent here? Dish soap? Hot (!) water? Maybe residual Cascade?
 
Ok, new development here... :smile:

I took the 3-ball (which looked awful!), and worked on it by hand with the Aramith Ball Restorer, and now it looks like new (at least the part that I have done so far - this is hard work).

That tells me two things: The discoloration isn't permanent; and my polisher isn't working as well as I thought it was... But, I can't do these all by hand, I would be crippled by the time I was done.

So, now I have to figure out why my polisher isn't working so well.
 
Maybe the soap didn't completely rinse off, then the hot air baked it dry on the balls. Just a guess.

Pics please. :)
 
I didn't let them dry in the dishwasher, I took them out and dried them by hand.

After dishwasher and machine polishing:

IMG_1997_zps99167f8b.jpg


After hand polishing:

IMG_1998_zps2e8357e9.jpg


And, like I said, that was hard work to get it to look like that.

My polisher is a fancy version of the bucket polisher (I should have posted a picture of that, too). It has worked, ok, in the past. I just got new buffers for it (it's a 2-holer), and new bonnets, and it has been working really well. But it won't touch this stuff... I even held the ball directly to the buffer while it was running (with some polish on - but maybe not enough), and it would hardly affect the discoloration.

I don't relish the thought of doing these by hand. I had to work a long time (10 minutes, or so) just to get that small portion of the 3-ball looking like that.

So, good :smile: and bad :frown: news.
 
It takes a lot for the resin color to fade.......the dishwashing detergent naturally has soap in it or else it would not clean.......but it also has wetting agents to deal with the calcium carbonate levels in your water. But it does not deal with silica and if that's in your water, your pool balls will get almost irreversible water spots from the dish washing cycle from prolonged immersion in the water. Water with silica is very tough to deal with.

Keep in mind that dish washing detergents will perform differently......and it can be very different indeed.....as levels of calcium, magnesium, manganese, copper, and iron are present in the water .
Remember that every ground water or surface water, municipally treated or otherwise, has some level of these compounds and silica is horrible to deal when present. So not knowing much about your water source quality, I can envision many different scenarios where your pool balls would be permanently damaged.

It sounds more like your balls acquired a surface film/deposit that can be a pain in the ass to remove as you've found out. Try soaking your pool balls in a solution of water with a low pH......at least in the pH range of 5.25 to 6.0.....a mild acid solution is needed to make the water acidic which is necessary to loosen the molecular bond to the resin surface. It's akin to descaling a commercial water system but of course, the pH level required for that treatment would be much lower and water recirculation would be needed.

My background includes a certified water treatment operator level III, and certified boiler & cooling systems chemical field engineer. Water is taken for granted until a problem sets in and then it takes a lot to recover and sometimes you never can without it becoming a economic Pyrrhric Victory of a sort.....cheaper to get a new set. Now please keep in mind that I haven't examined the pool balls or even seen photos but I know about water and also commercial applications from having also owned a Culligan Dealership in Fresno, Ca. Based upon your short description, that's about all it can be.

The Aramith restorer is akin to performing a rubbing compound treatment on your automobile. Compounding a car is a a whole lot harder than polishing a car. You have to remove all the oxidation first and basically, you're equivalently doing the same thing with the pool balls but the deposit isn't from oxidation like with a auto. If you don't mind your pool balls smelling like a salad for a time, you can lower the pH of the water with a solution of vinegar & water. You'll still have to rub the pool balls to get them restored but it should be easier. Then give the pool balls a good polish and if you don't have automatic Ballstar or Diamond cleaner, bring the balls to your pool hall to get polished a couple of times.

Goof luck with whatever you decide.

Matt B.

p.s. Just saw the photo and based upon my work experience, there's both soluble and insoluble deposits and also film deposition.
It's caused by the cleaning solution and the solids in the water and hopefully, there's isn't much silica (ppm) in your water source.
However, it looks like there could be which I'm basing on the appearance of the "cleaned" area on the 3 ball. I suspect the look is
from chemical film deposit and solids deposits consisting of CACO3 from the presence of calcium & magnesium in your water &
some yet to be determined level (ppm) of silica as well.
 
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I tried an initial vinegar/water solution, and my results aren't conclusive, but I don't get the feeling that it is helping that much (if at all).

So, two questions:

What vinegar to water ratio would you suggest?

Do I polish the balls while they're still wet (and/or continually re-dip them)?​

Thanks.

p.s. FYI, I have soft water, if that has a bearing on the case... Also, I don't know if they routinely test for it, but the Goodyear (AZ) water quality report doesn't cite the presence of silica in our water.
 
Also, here's my ball cleaner/polisher:

IMG_1999_zpsb1f6451d.jpg


It utilizes a pair of those 10" Ryobi random orbital buffers. I have been trying to improve its performance, so I have been experimenting with different bonnets, and different ball separators (or none)...

It has worked pretty well in the past, but not as well as I would like.
 
I'm thinking you could make a "egg cup" type of cradle that you line with carpet and make some sort of domed contraption you can attach to a drill and polish the balls with aramith restorer one at the time. The difference between this and a regular ball polisher is that you can apply a lot more force to the ball, making the polishing compound much more effective.
 
swest said:
I tried an initial vinegar/water solution, and my results aren't conclusive, but I don't get the feeling that it is helping that much (if at all).

So, two questions:

What vinegar to water ratio would you suggest?

Do I polish the balls while they're still wet (and/or continually re-dip them)?​

Thanks.

p.s. FYI, I have soft water, if that has a bearing on the case... Also, I don't know if they routinely test for it, but the Goodyear (AZ) water quality report doesn't cite the presence of silica in our water.
Click to expand...
Holy shit...smebody pay that man!
 
It may be worth trying Lime Away on them which is available anywhere. My sweet and sometimes looney wife is a senior formulation scientist as her career and uses it to clean all sorts of stuff around her lab. It works wonders on the water stains on her test equipment. If that does not work I'll ask her for another idea later. She is decompressing with a cosmopolitan at the moment!!
 
balls

swest said:
Ok, new development here... :smile:

I took the 3-ball (which looked awful!), and worked on it by hand with the Aramith Ball Restorer, and now it looks like new (at least the part that I have done so far - this is hard work).

That tells me two things: The discoloration isn't permanent; and my polisher isn't working as well as I thought it was... But, I can't do these all by hand, I would be crippled by the time I was done.

So, now I have to figure out why my polisher isn't working so well.
Click to expand...
If you have a compressor then you just need to go to a place that you can buy a car finish polishing attachment. You can use this with the polishing compound and they come out like new.
 
sebas said:
If you have a compressor then you just need to go to a place that you can buy a car finish polishing attachment.
Click to expand...

Is there a disadvantage / danger in using an electric drill with a car polish attachment that fits into the drill chuck ?
 
hamandeggers said:
I use Magic Eraser or Mr Eraser. No problems so far.
Click to expand...

That'll take this stuff off these balls?

[puts Day 4, part 3 of the World Snooker Championships on pause, gets out of bed to go grab some Magic Eraser, and the 3-ball, and give it a go]

Well, it wasn't 'magic', but it certainly worked more quickly, and with less effort than the Aramith Restorer compound by hand. I just about cleaned the entire ball (I used the 4-ball instead) in only a couple of minutes. Tomorrow, I'll put it into the polisher, and see how it turns out.

More later.

Thanks!
 
mamics said:
Is there a disadvantage / danger in using an electric drill with a car polish attachment that fits into the drill chuck ?
Click to expand...

I would assume that the compressor attachment would have a lot more torque, but that's just a guess.
 
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