C'mon man, we're pool players for petes sake. Piling on is our specialty.
Archer and Oscar talk it out live today at 3:00 CST
- Thread starter DeadStick
- Start date
That's fair, he did send a $100 payment at one point after being shamed. I'm waiting for him to get stiffed on several bets with "I'll pay you when you pay Oscar back"
JA needs a big sign and a busy intersection: 'Will run out for 5bux'
Oscar is nothing but classy, but one of my takeaways from the conversation is that this $6500 is owed to his backers and not Oscar himself. Sure, some % of that is his, but the story hits a little bit different when its: "pool legend Johnny Archer stiffs Oscar's wealthy backers for money they find in their couch cushions" and not the "pool legend Johnny Archer stiffs hard working pool room owner Oscar Dominguez for $6500" that most people probably think is the case.
Right now my social media is full of the JA/Oscar drama and Earl Strickland scratching and clawing to make a living by showing up to people's house to play a few games and make a few hundred bucks. I just hope the pool stars of today and the pool legends of tomorrow enjoy a better life after pool.
Also - I love the irony of both parties being upset about mud being slung at their family on social media, and Oscar's wife is in the comment section talking about all the breaks Johnny has gotten in life and how he's squandered them through poor decision making. Probably true, probably not her place to be talking about it.
Right now my social media is full of the JA/Oscar drama and Earl Strickland scratching and clawing to make a living by showing up to people's house to play a few games and make a few hundred bucks. I just hope the pool stars of today and the pool legends of tomorrow enjoy a better life after pool.
Also - I love the irony of both parties being upset about mud being slung at their family on social media, and Oscar's wife is in the comment section talking about all the breaks Johnny has gotten in life and how he's squandered them through poor decision making. Probably true, probably not her place to be talking about it.
Oscar addressed that on the podcast. He said posting up in a bigger money match is a relic of the 80s and 90s. Sometimes players are staked 100% and not from a single source. They get someone to back them $500 here, $1000 there, $5,000 here, $400 there, etc. It sounds like often the players compete without the cash in hand and they are operating off their reputation as good action and having personally vouched their backers are reliable. The loser is responsible for collecting from their end (likely over days or weeks after the event) and sending it to the winner.How do people get into these situations? Getting into these matches, agreeing to play when they haven't actually seen any physical $$$? Asking out of curiosity.
Don't care how you show it to me, dirty 5s or crisp big bills, but I want to see the money first...
People joke about players advertising their action like it's going to draw the attention of the IRS when it's pretty unlikely the IRS will notice a post of Facebook or AZB. But the IRS will notice if 20 people pool $50k into a single account. He said players these days have more of a concern about creating a paper trail like that. So that's probably where modern technology comes into play to affect why they do it this way. It sounds like posting up hasn't been the common practice for these types of matches for about a decade or longer. Johnny even referred to this as "the new way" and how he'll never gamble a match with this approach again.
And the big thing isn't just that he stiffed Oscar. That implies he air barreled or didn't have the money to pay. Johnny actually collected from his backers. He had the money in hand / in full. And then used the money for his personal needs instead of sending it to Oscar. That's why this isn't just a gambler unable to square up. This is theft and disrespect in its ugliest form.
Here the thing about character and integrity. You either have them or you don't. Personal success or failure doesn't dictate character and/or integrity. Johnny is a prime example. Was he at one time considered the best US player? Yes. That doesn't make him a good human being. He was morally bankrupt when he started his pool career and he's morally bankrupt now. I have a buddy who competed professionally and played Johnny quite a few times. Johnny is a rack mechanic and a shark. Even on the Upstate Al stream of Turning Stone he was doing commentary (if you want to call it that) for the final and he made a comment regarding Fedor's play (paraphrasing), "I'd shark him to try and break his momentum." Pathetic. That gives you a small snapshot into his mentality and makeup. Failed businesses, a failed marriage, a terrible name in his chosen profession, etc., etc., etc. At the end of the day, a person only has their character and integrity, regardless of personal or financial success. Johnny is flat broke on all counts.
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Him and every other pool player that you idolize - at least Johnny will admit it.
HUH????? You obviously don't know much about pro pool. Few if any resort to shark tactics. Maybe out in the weeds where you play but not on tour regardless of what Archer said. Its usually at lower levels where no-talent nits have to resort to this shit in order to fund their gambling/crack/hookers/etc. habits.
First, I don't idolize any pro pool players so there's that. Second, there may be a few that try to shark but they are in the minority.
Every player on "tour" will do what they can to break the momentum of the player they are playing. The concept of "sharking" is an ambiguous term that is defined however the person using it wants to define it at that time.
Tax someone that didnt get paid ...? lol nobody is getting a call
Ambiguous? No sir. If you are not at the table, anything short of quietly sitting in your chair without moving (especially when in your opponent's shot line) is sharking.
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About all you can do is slow play them if there's no shot clock. That's not sharking. Sharking is rack manipulation, moving in the guys eye-line, things like that. I watch a bunch of pro-level pool and rarely if ever do you see shark moves. I'm talking about MR events, Predator tour, Derby, etc. Seen a shitload of pro matches in last 40odd yrs and could probably say maybe 5 times have i seen sharking to the point the guy was called out for doing it. There is a former top tour player who would get out his keys with his scuffer. Blatant shark move and he got away with it til confronted by another top player who kinda liked to scrap. AFAIK he never did it again after that little dust-up. I'm not saying this crap never happens but among the pros its very rare these days.
Very well. If Johnny was implying he would blatantly move while in Fedor's shot line to try to cause him to miss to break the momentum then I agree that is a scumbag move. I don't think that is what he meant and I think you know that.
I have a question about the pod cast also.......so the amount changed due to steak horses not following through. Johnny said he had to make calls back east to get people in for the bet, so what happened to the people that said they would go in with him? Do those people get off free without having to pay up also? If I was Johnny I would had released the names of the people that said they were in and bailed. I understand Johnny made the bet and I know its been 3 years but having to pay a full $12,100 that you weren't planning on paying out of your pocket when youre broke and when you thought you had backers is a bad spot also.......thats how I understood what he said about how the match even happened.
They backed out before they racked the balls. Disappointing but don't think it impacts what happened afterwards.
Johnny received the full $12K they agreed to play for from his backers and it never got to Oscar - he wasn't ever paying anything out of pocket.
Ok so I guess I was confused on that, he paid 4k from a match he played in Vegas that he left there for Oscar then he spoke about $5100..? that not $12,100.......and if he had the steak horses wouldnt he had got the 4k back that he gave to Oscar from them? The money doesnt seem to add up at all from the amounts given lol
I agree it was confusing, but Oscar outright asked Johnny if he received the full $12K from his backers and he admitted that he had.
I've watched Archer since the 90s, this includes watching him when he's in his chair. I've never seen sharking or other forms of poor sportsmanship out of him like I've seen out of many others of that generation. That of course doesn't mean he hasn't done it, but it certainly hasn't defined his career as some are now implying. Archer has a strange sense of humor and it's not helping him here.
We've had another situation like this, but one that occured on AZ -- the Bill Stroud affair. I think that one was different as Bill completely thumbed his nose at everyone after using the site to promote his very idea. That tarnished his legacy in my eyes. Archer can still avoid this fate to some degree.
So Archer is at crossroads, where I think he can still make this right. If you read between the lines, you can see there's a man there that's struggling. One that doesn't know exactly how to move forward. "Get a job!" is an easy thing to say, but the guy's in his mid 50's and pool is all he's ever known. I'm 10 years younger and I'm not sure what I would do if I lost my job, AND my family. I've pictured the latter, and I'm not sure what would compel me to continue on. I do know I have people that care enough about me to help me get through a 6500 dollar problem. Apparently, he no longer does. Even if it's all his fault, I have enough humanity left in me to feel sorry for the guy.
I want him to make it right, become mentally and physically healthy, and reconcile with his friends and family. If you don't wish that for him, it says more about you than you may realize.
We've had another situation like this, but one that occured on AZ -- the Bill Stroud affair. I think that one was different as Bill completely thumbed his nose at everyone after using the site to promote his very idea. That tarnished his legacy in my eyes. Archer can still avoid this fate to some degree.
So Archer is at crossroads, where I think he can still make this right. If you read between the lines, you can see there's a man there that's struggling. One that doesn't know exactly how to move forward. "Get a job!" is an easy thing to say, but the guy's in his mid 50's and pool is all he's ever known. I'm 10 years younger and I'm not sure what I would do if I lost my job, AND my family. I've pictured the latter, and I'm not sure what would compel me to continue on. I do know I have people that care enough about me to help me get through a 6500 dollar problem. Apparently, he no longer does. Even if it's all his fault, I have enough humanity left in me to feel sorry for the guy.
I want him to make it right, become mentally and physically healthy, and reconcile with his friends and family. If you don't wish that for him, it says more about you than you may realize.