Are Makita laminate trimmers any good?

Chris Abaya Cues

Chris Abaya Cues

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've been doing a little research on quiet routers and Makita seems to claim that they have the quietest routers.

http://www.amazon.com/Makita-RD1101-Variable-D-Handle-Router/dp/B000051WRP

This particular router has a sound rating of 81db. I am wondering if the Makita laminate trimmer is just as quiet.

http://www.cpomakita.com/routers_and_trimmers/3707fc.html?ref=ysm419

I am not interested in the Unique quiet router because I cannot afford it. I just want a replacement router that is quieter than my porter cable and dewalt laminate trimmers. With it and my shopvac on, it can get pretty loud in my shop even when a headset on. I am saving up for a Jet DC1100A dust collector too so I don't go deaf in a few years.
 
Makita makes good tools, but I have never used their trimmers. The no load speed is 26,000RPM, which I think is pretty slow compared to the 30K-40K routers.
 
makita is very nice

I have been a staunch proponent of Kress for the past 15 yrs but since they came out with the new colored bodies, the quality seems to have dropped. I've had 2 that had .003" runout on the collet seat of the spindle. This is not runout checked in the collet - this is runout in the spindle itself - into which the collet seats. When the collet & cutter are installed, TIR on the cutter varied between .003 & .008". My three old black Kresses run between .000 & .002" every time. The collet seats are dead nuts on all three - and 2 have been rebuilt.

The Makita shown runs between .000 & .001" EVERY TIME. (I admit this might be an anomaly.) Its size & accuracy help minimize vibrations and it enables me to use 1/2" shank cutters for V-grooves & shaft work. Quiet? Anything running over 20K rpm is going to make noise - but its smoothness makes the output sound more like a LOUD hum rather than a scream. I'm very happy with it.

I'd be interested in hearing about measured TIR on your routers/laminate trimmers/spindles. Measure both the collet seat in the spindle & a collet mounted cutter.
 

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I have 3 Makita trim routers, one I've had almost 20 yrs. I've replaced brushes in it maybe 3 - 4 times. I think it needs bearings now so I'm going to rebuild it and give it new life. The other 2 I recently purchased on eBay. Under $40.ea. delivered to the door. Since the first one lasted 20 yrs. I figure these two will see me through the duration (of whatever). I'm not using them for inlay pockets so run-out is not a concern. Yeah, they may scream a little but so do my Porters and Bosches. The Porter Cables and the Bosches have a little more pwr. in a smaller pkg. but they all get the job done.
 
KJ, based on your response about the Makita laminate trimmers - I guess they are just as loud as the porter cable? I would estimate my porter cable to be around the 90+ db range. I will probably try the bigger Makita router like the one Bob has (RF1101). That one is rated at 81 db and that a huge difference from 90db. I am also surprised to know that it is quite accurate and at $189 with free shipping from amazon, it's not much more expensive than the porter cable.

Thanks for the responses.
 
I have not tried any of the mentioned routers but I would just like to give a input on the sound pressure level:

-A increase of 6dB in sound requires a doubling in sound pressure level.
So if router A has 80dB and router B has 86dB, router B is making the double in noise as A. (there is a lot of more to this, but without getting in to how our hears work, this could be a rule of thumb)

-Long term hearing damage is caused if the SPL is in the range of prox 85 dB

After we moved our pool club to a bowling place, where we have brick walls and a enormous BANG when we break with Sledgehammer look-a-likes, I have started using earplugs. I measured the SPL to be over 120dB - short term.

So for our work in the shop, I basically use large "hearing blocker" headset even if my spindle is just turned on with low rpm's to warm up.

If you go for the Makita, I would still recommend using headset just to be safe where it most likely would feel more comfortable.

As for dust extraction, I'm not willing to take permanent damage of either hearing or breathing so safety is important for me at least.

Kent
 
Spl Levels

Newton said:
I have not tried any of the mentioned routers but I would just like to give a input on the sound pressure level:

-A increase of 6dB in sound requires a doubling in sound pressure level.
So if router A has 80dB and router B has 86dB, router B is making the double in noise as A. (there is a lot of more to this, but without getting in to how our hears work, this could be a rule of thumb)

-Long term hearing damage is caused if the SPL is in the range of prox 85 dB

After we moved our pool club to a bowling place, where we have brick walls and a enormous BANG when we break with Sledgehammer look-a-likes, I have started using earplugs. I measured the SPL to be over 120dB - short term.

So for our work in the shop, I basically use large "hearing blocker" headset even if my spindle is just turned on with low rpm's to warm up.

If you go for the Makita, I would still recommend using headset just to be safe where it most likely would feel more comfortable.

As for dust extraction, I'm not willing to take permanent damage of either hearing or breathing so safety is important for me at least.

Kent
Click to expand...
Just a little info: A spl level of 85db's in long term use will not cause hearing problems. Did you know that most people talking have about 70 db level. It would take somewhere around 90-95 db at a frequency range of 1.2k to 6.0 k to cause hearing loss in long term use. I do agree with if have a 120 db range from when your routers are running you are very smart wearing ear protection. Did you know that most concerts are running right around 120-125 db's. If I am remembering correctly the loudest concert that I ever worked peaked out at 135 db's. I always wore ear plugs that would reduce at least 20 db's. I worked in live production for about 8 years doing FOH for many headliners. Just a little info for anyone interested.

I do suggest that ear protection is the right way to go anytime you working in a loud environment.
 
patrickcues said:
Just a little info: A spl level of 85db's in long term use will not cause hearing problems. Did you know that most people talking have about 70 db level. It would take somewhere around 90-95 db at a frequency range of 1.2k to 6.0 k to cause hearing loss in long term use. I do agree with if have a 120 db range from when your routers are running you are very smart wearing ear protection. Did you know that most concerts are running right around 120-125 db's. If I am remembering correctly the loudest concert that I ever worked peaked out at 135 db's. I always wore ear plugs that would reduce at least 20 db's. I worked in live production for about 8 years doing FOH for many headliners. Just a little info for anyone interested.

I do suggest that ear protection is the right way to go anytime you working in a loud environment.
Click to expand...

Patrick;

It was not my intention to hijack this thread, but I just had to give you a feedback on this. For the others which is interested in Health and safety-read on.

It's 11 years since I did my classes in Acoustics and I don't have my books here and it's for sure a while since I worked in that field .
Just to make sure if I remembered correct, I did a check on the web just to make sure...

In you're country you are not allowed to operate a machine which is operated daily with a higher SPL then 75 dB(A),
see sec.112.05 http://www.nonoise.org/lawlib/cities/losangel.htm

Have also a look here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearing_loss
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noise_regulation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_pressure_level

UK regulations
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2005/20051643.htm#4

In Norway we say maximum noise level EDIT: "allowed" are
Workshop:65-70dB(A)
Conference hall: 35
Classroom: 35

and then we could go on. It's limits are well documented and in case they all are wrong, I would recommend you to suggest them changed.

Anyway, I think we both agree and my point was that we should use hearing blockers even if the tools are in the 80-90 dB range and that a doubling of level is 6dB (even if we would not feel it doubled until prox 9-10dB but this is another story).

Having a rock concert with a level of 135dB's is OVER the threshold of pain by the way, where most of us actually would suffer big time.

My measurements where done while we where breaking in 9 ball, and the levels was over 120dB(A). If I had a machinery in that range of noise levels I would have sold it immediately...;)

Ayway, the bottom line is, we should take care of our self and that the noise levels on our machinery should be a factor to consider as BECue has done.
Happy cuemaking
Kent
 
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A increase of 6dB in sound requires a doubling in sound pressure level.
So if router A has 80dB and router B has 86dB, router B is making the double in noise as A. (there is a lot of more to this, but without getting in to how our hears work, this could be a rule of thumb)
Kent, I thought we can audibly tell difference at +13 db.
A 10 db gain is doubling the volume?

You'd be amazed to see people's noise tolerance here.
People cut bricks and tiles here sans hearing protection.
When I shoot at the local indoor range, I wear earplugs AND muffs.
Not get this. I used to sell stereo equipment. One custmor called me and told me his cd player was skipping.
I go to his apartment and told him to show it to.
He played the Onkyo stereo at FULL-volume while the 3-way 12" woofer speakers stood next to the audio rack.:rolleyes:
I swear to God I wanted to smack him right there.
If you go to a concert here, you better wear earplugs or you'd be deaf like Ted Nugent and The Who members.
 
JoeyInCali said:
A increase of 6dB in sound requires a doubling in sound pressure level.
So if router A has 80dB and router B has 86dB, router B is making the double in noise as A. (there is a lot of more to this, but without getting in to how our hears work, this could be a rule of thumb)
Kent, I thought we can audibly tell difference at +13 db.
A 10 db gain is doubling the volume?
Click to expand...

He he, Joey, a good comment as usual:grin:

I think I should not go in further details on Acoustics, but a comment on the 6dB is as follows:
If we speak about SPL, we use 20*log(P/Pref) where I guess 20*log2=6dB
If we speak about sound power and Intensity we use 10*log(2)=3dB (I don't have my calculator here, and the computer version don't do log)
This is the theory and then we emerge in to Psychoacoustics on how we feel the different noise is effecting us which is a big topic. If I remember correct, you could do a Google on "Phon-curves" which I think is the frequency "curves" for how we would experience the different frequencies. I think they show the equivalent level in SPL as a function of frequency for us to feel they sound the same... Anyone, correct me if I'm wrong, but I'll check in my books tomorrow. I guess we should stop with the acoustics..:boring2:


JoeyInCali said:

You'd be amazed to see people's noise tolerance here.
People cut bricks and tiles here sans hearing protection.
When I shoot at the local indoor range, I wear earplugs AND muffs.
Click to expand...

Sounds like my father:grin: I helped him cutting wood (firewood) this weekend where he used this massive stationary woodsaw. I had to pick up the chopped wood and arrange it in a "organized" way leaning to the wall. My right ear was ringing for a loooong time and my father of course had no plugs or hearing headset blockers available so there I was...

JoeyInCali said:

Not get this. I used to sell stereo equipment. One custmor called me and told me his cd player was skipping.
I go to his apartment and told him to show it to.
He played the Onkyo stereo at FULL-volume while the 3-way 12" woofer speakers stood next to the audio rack.:rolleyes:
I swear to God I wanted to smack him right there.
If you go to a concert here, you better wear earplugs or you'd be deaf like Ted Nugent and The Who members.
Click to expand...


I did my theses in acoustics and the topic was loudspeakers. Have been building those things now for many years even if the last set made are many years back. I find it hard to argue with many "sound gurus" with Martin Logan speakers, Mark Levinson Amps and then has a record collection which consists of 5 test CDs. There is so much "Voodoo", "far-space-theory", "blue is better than red cable" in this topic that it's some times scary:eek:

I'm preparing a article on my web in respect of pool playing and hearing impact, but it's all about that factor called time... I can feel that my hearing has been altered after we moved (our pool club), so I have opted for some custom made ear blockers (after a cast of my ear channel) where I can choose 5-15-20dB attenuation.

And then I have ordered a custom setup of these http://www.etymotic.com/ephp/er4.aspx which would be customized in a casted earfited earplug to eliminate background noise (plains,pool hall and so)

I guess many find this goofy, but my ears are to valuable for me to loose and since I feel my hearing has changed, well I just want others to know about the hazards ...

Kent
 
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Newton said:
Patrick;

It was not my intention to hijack this thread, but I just had to give you a feedback on this. For the others which is interested in Health and safety-read on.

It's 11 years since I did my classes in Acoustics and I don't have my books here and it's for sure a while since I worked in that field .
Just to make sure if I remembered correct, I did a check on the web just to make sure...

In you're country you are not allowed to operate a machine which is operated daily with a higher SPL then 75 dB(A),
see sec.112.05 http://www.nonoise.org/lawlib/cities/losangel.htm

Have also a look here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearing_loss
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noise_regulation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_pressure_level

UK regulations
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2005/20051643.htm#4

In Norway we say maximum noise level EDIT: "allowed" are
Workshop:65-70dB(A)
Conference hall: 35
Classroom: 35

and then we could go on. It's limits are well documented and in case they all are wrong, I would recommend you to suggest them changed.

Anyway, I think we both agree and my point was that we should use hearing blockers even if the tools are in the 80-90 dB range and that a doubling of level is 6dB (even if we would not feel it doubled until prox 9-10dB but this is another story).

Having a rock concert with a level of 135dB's is OVER the threshold of pain by the way, where most of us actually would suffer big time.

My measurements where done while we where breaking in 9 ball, and the levels was over 120dB(A). If I had a machinery in that range of noise levels I would have sold it immediately...;)

Ayway, the bottom line is, we should take care of our self and that the noise levels on our machinery should be a factor to consider as BECue has done.
Happy cuemaking
Kent
Click to expand...
Like you I am not trying to hyjack this post. What I am referring to is mainly in live production. Concert settings. Other than cue building that what I have the most experience in. Here in the US if you was to go into diferrent shops you will find that most have a db level higher than what you have listed here. You are also required to wear ear protection in most shops here also. Anyway either way it is only going to be better for us to wear ear protection no matter how you look at it.
 
I am aware of the risks regarding prolonged exposure to high sound levels hence my original post asking about queiter equipment. I've been reading this forum for a while now and there have been very limited discussions about the dangers of the sound levels generated by some of the tools of our trade. I don't think you guys hijacked this thread at all. Thanks for the additional information.
 
I found another router that is even quieter than the Makita router - Hitachi M12vc claims to have a sound rating of 79.5db compared to Makita's 81db. It is cheaper than Makita but I doubt that the quality is comparable. This one is made in China and although there are a lot of positive reviews about it I found a couple of bad reviews where the owner claimed that the bits came off the chuck and that's a pretty serious defect. I am not sure if it was user error but both of them claimed that they tightened the collet.
 
Firs BECue, I would like to applaud you for putting the focus on the sound emanations for the equipment we are using. As you mention, this is easily forgotten.

When it comes to tools, I have the funny feeling pretty much anything is made down in China these days. I have been searching for a lathe now, and for me they all looks the same, only rebranded to the specific "brand".

I'm not sure if this is the case with the spindles you have looked at, but I have stopped "buying" the thought that double the price is always better. Some times it's double the price, double the income from the retailer.

Bit's coming of the chuck sound's for me like a user error, since this must be the primary "error" to overcome in a tool like this. It's like selling car's where the owner calls backs to reclaim the money because the wheels fell off, even if he had done the tire change:grin:

Only my gut feeling and I guess I might be wrong...

K
 
Newton said:
Firs BECue, I would like to applaud you for putting the focus on the sound emanations for the equipment we are using. As you mention, this is easily forgotten.

When it comes to tools, I have the funny feeling pretty much anything is made down in China these days. I have been searching for a lathe now, and for me they all looks the same, only rebranded to the specific "brand".

I'm not sure if this is the case with the spindles you have looked at, but I have stopped "buying" the thought that double the price is always better. Some times it's double the price, double the income from the retailer.

Bit's coming of the chuck sound's for me like a user error, since this must be the primary "error" to overcome in a tool like this. It's like selling car's where the owner calls backs to reclaim the money because the wheels fell off, even if he had done the tire change:grin:

Only my gut feeling and I guess I might be wrong...

K
Click to expand...

You are correct that user error can be a contributing factor in a collet not closing fully and releasing a bit. If the collet is not made completely tight the friction bond between collet and shank is not strong enough to hold bit in place. After running in this condition a couple of times the collet gets worn and no longer can be made tight. I've had this happen to more than one router.

Dick
 
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