Are stiff shafts harder to draw the ball with?

[mortuarymike-nv]

Getting draw

I guess everyone is different on the opinion or what works the best for them.

Way back when I owned and used a meucci black dot, to me it was the worst............

The best draw I have ever gotten out of any pool cue was with my break cue with a hard plastic tip. I could shoot the cue ball full table and draw it a full table back.
I spent a few weeks just practicing that shot, Its not a easy shot and my average was only 20% to 30% of being able to get full table draw.

Generally I like a soft to a medium / soft layered tip.
Personally I think the stiffness of the shaft has some effect on how much draw someone can get.
But I haven't done any real research on it where I could post my findings.

Regardless the guys that are use to the cue they have now and are no longer on the hunt for a main player are not going to change their cue or their shafts just for draw.

As far as I know Mike Massey might be the king of draw shots and I know its covered in his trick shot book.

And I guess I should add all 4 shafts for my main player are solid maple.

Breaking down what would be needed to do a great draw shot would be.

Good clean cloth
Being able to hit the cue ball at the exact spot everytime.
Cue tip condition.
Good follow thru or the right timing of snapping your wrist depending on how close the object ball is away from the CB or how much draw you want.
When possible I try keep my cue as level as I can.
When I start to jack up the back of my cue my miss rate goes up.
Clean pool balls

 

[JT Flipper]

I've played with 13 mm tips for years, but find i do draw the cue ball better with a 12.5 tip, which is the size i see most pros playing with.

 

[PoolBum]

Read it within the context of me answering his question about not being able to draw as well because the shaft is stiffer. I replied that him not being able to draw as well has nothing to do with the shaft being stiffer, but rather in fact draw should be easier because of it.

I see. So when you said "it has nothing to do with stiffness" you didn't mean that drawing the ball has nothing to do with stiffness, you meant that his not being able to draw the ball had nothing to do with stiffness.

 

[Baxter]

OOC, what tip are you using on the ob2?

Everest. I've also used Kamui medium on both the Tiger and the OB shafts. The results haven't varied through tip changes, and I tried several different tips on the Tiger.

 

[Sloppy Pockets]

The ball is long gone before the shaft has a chance to reflex, so the "whip" of the shaft straightening back out after impact has no effect on the cue ball. Essentially, the stiffer the shaft, the less it flexes, the more efficient the energy transfer between the tip and ball. The more it flexes, the more energy it absorbs, leaving less for the ball.

High speed video of tip compression shows that the tip remains in contact with the ball throughout the entire compression/decompression cycle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DceJZs2AJgQ

In other words, separation doesn't occur until all of the energy stored in the tip has been released. This makes sense, and would be predicted by Hooke's Law as it applies to elastic materials (a ball or a tip under compression acts like a spring). A shaft bent under a force would also act as a spring. Why would it behave any differently?

 

[HawaiianEye]

High speed video of tip compression shows that the tip remains in contact with the ball throughout the entire compression/decompression cycle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DceJZs2AJgQ

In other words, separation doesn't occur until all of the energy stored in the tip has been released. This makes sense, and would be predicted by Hooke's Law as it applies to elastic materials (a ball or a tip under compression acts like a spring). A shaft bent under a force would also act as a spring. Why would it behave any differently?

I have always thought that your tip stays on the ball until the point of compression rebounds back to the original shape. Is that not the way it is in most people's understanding?

 

[The Renfro]

High speed video of tip compression shows that the tip remains in contact with the ball throughout the entire compression/decompression cycle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DceJZs2AJgQ

In other words, separation doesn't occur until all of the energy stored in the tip has been released. This makes sense, and would be predicted by Hooke's Law as it applies to elastic materials (a ball or a tip under compression acts like a spring). A shaft bent under a force would also act as a spring. Why would it behave any differently?

Bravo..... WOW... This is exatly what makes the difference between a hard tip and a soft tip and it's about elasticity and not durometer......

As far as the shaft acting as a spring.... LOL ummm now you are getting into areas I still debate...

I have theorized that a whippy shaft may actually bow towards contact since the tip must remain in contact until it releases and the shaft has a lot of flex and a stiff shaft will not bow much if any before deflecting...

Since the ferrule and tennon flex at contact you also have another joint that I belive may flex towards contact....

In these instances where flex towards contact occur I think you have extra opportunity to increase tip contact time because of Hooke's law which is why I feel that non-stiff shafts will indeed have the capacity of increasing contact time and spin which make them easier to draw with.......

Chris

 

[Sloppy Pockets]

I have always thought that your tip stays on the ball until the point of compression rebounds back to the original shape. Is that not the way it is in most people's understanding?

I never gave it much thought until I saw the videos, so I don't know what most folks understanding is, but the high-speed camera makes a pretty convincing case that the tip does indeed stay in contact with the ball the entire time.

 

[Sloppy Pockets]

Bravo..... WOW... This is exatly what makes the difference between a hard tip and a soft tip and it's about elasticity and not durometer......

Yup. Think super ball, not ball bearing. :wink:

BTW I still have three of your tips awaiting installation on my playing cue. I fell in love with one of those UltraSkin Pro tips and I'm reluctant to exchange it until it is all used up. Kinda like putting out a fine Dominican cigar halfway through so you can taste a fine Honduran. Which one of your tips do you think would give me the feel closest to the US Pro?

 

[The Renfro]

Yup. Think super ball, not ball bearing. :wink:

BTW I still have three of your tips awaiting installation on my playing cue. I fell in love with one of those UltraSkin Pro tips and I'm reluctant to exchange it until it is all used up. Kinda like putting out a fine Dominican cigar halfway through so you can taste a fine Honduran. Which one of your tips do you think would give me the feel closest to the US Pro?

Likely the soft... And ABSOLUTELY don't cut a good tip off just to try something new... And If it turns out you go back to Tom's tip because it suits you I will be happy about it... The whole idea is to find the tip that fits you right... I hope it's mine but will be just as happy if it isn't if the one you are using is better for you....

Chris