Are straight-in shots (drills) important to be practiced??

Neil said:
Many feel the straight in shot is the hardest shot in pool. I disagree. And, I also feel that a straight in shot should NEVER be missed. It is the only shot that is exactly the same every single time you shoot it. (not allowing for position off it)

I also strongly agree with the others that said to practice it, it will show you what is wrong in your stroke. Bert Kinnister shot #1 should be practiced a lot. You want the cb to stop dead though, no movement. Bert's shot #2 I also practice a lot. Set up a shot to the corner, put the cb about 3 diamonds away and so that a straight line is between two pockets. You can use your cue to get the straight line, and just put the cb under your cue. Shoot the ob in the corner, and draw straight back into the opposite corner. You can't do it unless you hit the shot perfectly. The draw back is no harder than the stop shot, but it will show you better how off you are on your hit.
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Great post Neil! You know I've always been great at follow shots, and would say I shoot them well above the average bear. But I never thought to do my follow shot with a draw stroke...even from closer range I can tell you it would be very difficult for me.

If i had to evaluate my game one of the issues I've always not mastered quite like I want is a great consistent straight draw back. I know it makes no sense that I can follow wonderfully but drawing perfectly a good distance is a strain on my stroke. Its basically the same exact shot too. I'm going to start practicing that for sure.

That exact shot came up a while back in a mini tourney. It was hill/hill and all I had to do was draw straight back for the win....and I pulled it about a 1/2" to a full 1" offline and clipped some balls and left myself with a kick on the 7....really bugged me that I did that to myself. I nearly pocketed the kick but should never have had to shoot it to begin with.

I've noticed another thing too, when I play with that smaller aramith ball on the box and shoot with my normal player (weinstock @11mm) the ball tends to slide or something? Its like as if the CB is too heavy and my end mass on the shaft is not enough which seemingly causes the tip to push the CB as opposed to pop the ball off the tip. Normal centennials or red circle CB's are no problem what so ever but a smaller and heavier CB (IE: more mass) gives me problems with that shaft. You ever experience something like this, or hear of such?

hope your good,
Grey GHost
 
Drill help

Hey Neil can you explain the Bert Kinister drill the ladder to me ..I keep hearing about it and id like to add it to my practice routine..Thank you in advance...R:grin-square:
Neil said:
Many feel the straight in shot is the hardest shot in pool. I disagree. And, I also feel that a straight in shot should NEVER be missed. It is the only shot that is exactly the same every single time you shoot it. (not allowing for position off it)

I also strongly agree with the others that said to practice it, it will show you what is wrong in your stroke. Bert Kinnister shot #1 should be practiced a lot. You want the cb to stop dead though, no movement. Bert's shot #2 I also practice a lot. Set up a shot to the corner, put the cb about 3 diamonds away and so that a straight line is between two pockets. You can use your cue to get the straight line, and just put the cb under your cue. Shoot the ob in the corner, and draw straight back into the opposite corner. You can't do it unless you hit the shot perfectly. The draw back is no harder than the stop shot, but it will show you better how off you are on your hit.
Click to expand...
 
Neil said:
Many feel the straight in shot is the hardest shot in pool. I disagree. And, I also feel that a straight in shot should NEVER be missed. It is the only shot that is exactly the same every single time you shoot it. (not allowing for position off it)

I also strongly agree with the others that said to practice it, it will show you what is wrong in your stroke. Bert Kinnister shot #1 should be practiced a lot. You want the cb to stop dead though, no movement. Bert's shot #2 I also practice a lot. Set up a shot to the corner, put the cb about 3 diamonds away and so that a straight line is between two pockets. You can use your cue to get the straight line, and just put the cb under your cue. Shoot the ob in the corner, and draw straight back into the opposite corner. You can't do it unless you hit the shot perfectly. The draw back is no harder than the stop shot, but it will show you better how off you are on your hit.
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Neil, shot #1 doesn't involve having the CB stop dead. That's cake. The CB is supposed to roll forward a 1/2 ball upon impact. It's a replacement shot, not a stop shot. :)

Best practice shot in all of pool, if you ask me.
 
you should not practice the straight-in shot.

the straight in shot can only tell you more about your aim & stroke and any potential fundemental problems than other practice shot in all of pool. It's useless, ignore it.

lol. j/k.

<----feeling frisky. hehe.

IMHO, there is no shot that is more important to practice. and really, it's not close.
 
Neil said:
Greyghost: What I have found with different cueballs, is that some will come back almost automatically (cb a little light), others you have to really stroke it. (heavy cb). What I try and do, is just add some speed to the shot. Not necessarily harder, but come throught the cb faster. Make sure you are hitting on the center axis though.

Postfirst: I don't have that tape. Sorry.

SpiderWebCom: I know Bert has the cb replace the ob on drill #1. That's why I stated to change it so the cb stops dead. As great as his drills are, I think he dropped the ball on that one. The actual stop shot should be drilled into ones head. All position play comes off the foundation of the stop shot. Replacing the ob is a good drill too, but not the way he shows it, or for the purpose he shows it. It should be practiced going forward too replace, to go two balls forward, three balls forward, ect. The actual drill he shows is not as practical as it could be.

When I do drill #1, I want the cb to stop dead. No sideways movement at all, no forward or reverse movement. I want it stuck in my head how to stop that ball RIGHT THERE. Great training for knowing just what I need to do for position, knowing what I need to do for a stop/stun shot at any given angle.
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Neil,

It's two different strokes altogether. The stop is a slower speed stroke with a decent amount of low english. The replace is a high-speed center ball hit. The stop requires no ability at all (in my humble opinion) and mitigates the effects of a non-perfect stroke (because of the low). The replace (if done correctly) is extremely difficult to execute. The slightest imperfection affects the outcome of your shot.

You can do a lot wrong with the stop shot and get an acceptable result; no so with the replace.

I agree with your premise of thinking the stop shot is what you need to play your tangents, etc. However, the main purpose of the drill is "stroke building" and to identify imperfections in the stroke.

Actually, since you play at a pretty high level--- the stop might be more beneficial for you since your stroke is nutted-up to begin with. Like I said though, it's the replace shot that will force improvement on a less than perfect stroke (assuming the player doesn't QUIT OUT OF FRUSTRATION before the improvement happens).

I hope this makes sense.

Dave
 
the ladder drill

can anybody explain this drill to me..:confused: Looking to add it to my practice ..thanks..R
 
Neil said:
What you are saying makes sense, but I STRONGLY, respectfully, disagree with you on it. The replacement shot, I believe, you are doing it wrong. And, therefore doing it the HARD way. The replacement shot should be just as easy as a stop shot when done correctly.

Do a stop shot, and pay attention to where you are actually hitting the cb. Don't just go by your subconscious on being able to make a stop shot, but KNOW where you hit the cb. Now, using exactly the same stroke and speed, just raise your tip a hair from what you need for a stop shot. The cb will magically replace the ob! Lower it a hair from a stop shot position, and you will magically draw back one ob distance. It's the same stroke, same shot, just hitting the cb in a slightly different place.
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You're supposed to hit center-ball. That's the parameter of the shot. That's why it's not easy. On a barbox--- it's easy, imo. On a 9' --- it's a whole 'nuther world (due to have to hitting center ball). Lag drawing doesn't count. You need to send a flat-ball to the OB (a spinless CB, that's why it's high-speed).

I guess people can make up their own variations, but it's a center-ball shot. So you're correct-- it's the hard way... but it's the correct way the shot (as a drill) is supposed to be played. If I'm playing in a match, I'm shooting it your way. But your way isn't "SHOT #1"

Shoot a flat CB (center ball) to the OB on a 9'er and see if it's just as easy as a stop shot. I'd rate the stop shot as a difficulty level of 2. A center-ball replacement shot on a 9'er is an 8, and I stroke well. For a lesser player, they'd prob rate it a 10 because they prob shoot it 20 times and not do it once.

EDIT:

Bert did this drill on a 7' barbox. Staying within the confines of the shot on a 9'er is insanely tough.
 
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SpiderWebComm said:
You're supposed to hit center-ball. That's the parameter of the shot. That's why it's not easy. On a barbox--- it's easy, imo. On a 9' --- it's a whole 'nuther world (due to have to hitting center ball). Lag drawing doesn't count. You need to send a flat-ball to the OB (a spinless CB, that's why it's high-speed).

I guess people can make up their own variations, but it's a center-ball shot. So you're correct-- it's the hard way... but it's the correct way the shot (as a drill) is supposed to be played. If I'm playing in a match, I'm shooting it your way. But your way isn't "SHOT #1"

Shoot a flat CB (center ball) to the OB on a 9'er and see if it's just as easy as a stop shot. I'd rate the stop shot as a difficulty level of 2. A center-ball replacement shot on a 9'er is an 8, and I stroke well. For a lesser player, they'd prob rate it a 10 because they prob shoot it 20 times and not do it once.

EDIT:

Bert did this drill on a 7' barbox. Staying within the confines of the shot on a 9'er is insanely tough.
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Totally agree with Spider on this one. Shot #1 is NOT just about replacing the OB, even though that is how you judge the shot. If done the way Bert says to do it it is much harder than just shooting stop shots.

I understand what Neil is saying, he is concentrating on having NO sidespin on his stop shot which is a good drill. But shot #1 is harder because you are essentially doing the same thing, but you must do it with a firmer stroke.

When practiced as its supposed to be, shot #1 is one of the best stroke building drills out there IMHO.

Woody
 
I have a theory on why this shot is hard, or seems harder than a cut shot sometimes.

------
With any shot we have an imaginary contact point, or a ghost ball, or you're slicing off a certain percentage (say 1/4th) of the object ball. On a cut shot, you sort of have the edge of the object ball as a visual guide to help you aim. The contact point is a little bit off the very outer left or right edge of the ball. You just imagine whether that point is THIS much off the edge or THAT much off the edge.

But on a straight in shot, your contact point is as far as possible from both the left and right edges of the ball. Instead of mentally judging a fixed distance between the edge of the ball and the place where you want to hit... you're doing something a little different. You're mentally estimating the halfway point between the left and right half of the ball. The actual contact point seems more 'invisible' than usual because it's buried somewhere in the featureless face of the object ball, far from any sort of reference that could make it stand out.

And of course, once you figure out exactly where to aim, you must deliver it there in a hitting-it-sporty fashion.

... make any sense?

looking at it another way... thin cuts are also fairly tough, but there's a limit to how much you can fck them up. On a razor thin cut, you basically CAN'T overcut the ball. Knowing that makes aiming it a little easier, you just cut as much as you can until you're on the verge of missing it totally. The straight in shot has the opposite property. You can screw it up (and badly) in both directions. That might explain why a long straight in is as hard (or harder) than a long thin cut.
 
Every shot has to be a *straight* shot.
But how GreyGhost shown up- in a drill doing a *straight-in* shot you are able to see what s wrong with your shot and can work on it.
In my opinion most ppl just *fear* these shots because a great amount of ppl think that they re easy shots......- and i like to say: each shot (no massee shots or curve shots or so ^^) Every shot is equal- you have to stroke straight to the point you re aming-nothing else.
 
Ratta said:
Every shot has to be a *straight* shot.
But how GreyGhost shown up- in a drill doing a *straight-in* shot you are able to see what s wrong with your shot and can work on it.
In my opinion most ppl just *fear* these shots because a great amount of ppl think that they re easy shots......- and i like to say: each shot (no massee shots or curve shots or so ^^) Every shot is equal- you have to stroke straight to the point you re aming-nothing else.
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Yup. I agree.
 
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