Are their "naturals" regarding aiming?

taemin952

XiaoTing Pan's Soulmate
Silver Member
Asking because I've never ever learned a system to help me aim, nor knew one existed for aiming specifically. It comes naturally to me when approaching the table, look at the shot, and get down and take the shot. Kicks and banks, yes I use a systematic approach. Please share your "technique(s)".

I think I'd miss more if I had to add any more thought into the shot than what feels right.
 
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If you have a natural feel & are pocket balls well, then why are you asking, especially if as you say you don't want anything more to think about?

I'm just wondering what you are thinking as this just does not seem to make sense.

Regards,
 
Hi,

I'll explain. (I actually agreed with you in a similar topic (Bustamante) in the Main Forum regarding "feel") I've been reading about one system vs. another here. Seems to be the hottest, most debated topic on AZ. I'm mostly wondering if these systems are truly something that top Pro's really use to aim today and that you can be taught these aiming systems via secret, elite academies or a respective Pro? I can understand being taught proper stance, grip, bridges, stroke, body alignment, cue ball control, speed, banking and kicking, but aiming?

This is how I've helped others (including my Dad just within the past month) who have never played pool regarding aiming. You can either hit a ball dead straight forward or up to 90 degrees in either direction. Aim for the left to make the object ball go right. Aim right to make it go left. All else is up to you...too much or too little to pocket it?

Thanks,

Taemin
 
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Hi,

I'll explain. (I actually agreed with you in a similar topic (Bustamante) in the Main Forum regarding "feel") I've been reading about one system vs. another here. Seems to be the hottest, most debated topic on AZ. I'm mostly wondering if these systems are truly something that top Pro's really use to aim today and that you can be taught these aiming systems via secret, elite academies or a respective Pro? I can understand being taught proper stance, grip, bridges, stroke, body alignment, cue ball control, speed, banking and kicking, but aiming?

This is how I've helped others (including my Dad just within the past month) who have never played pool regarding aiming. You can either hit a ball dead straight forward or up to 90 degrees in either direction. Aim for the left to make the object ball go right. Aim right to make it go left. All else is up to you...too much or too little to pocket it?

Thanks,

Taemin

Thanks Taemin for the explanation.

What you just said is basically what my Dad told me when I was 13 years old (I'm 59 now). He also showed me the basic line a ball would take without ever using the words 'ghost ball'. From there, he set me on my own & let me learn & develope my own feel. I developed an equal & opposite overlap of portions of the CB & OB. I developed this on my own & never assigned any numbers such as 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, etc. because there are an infinite number. I started using english very quickly when I realized that no matter how good my stroke was I could not guarantee that I would not hit just a bit off center & mis certain shots. So I then started shooting nearly every shot with either outside or inside english.

All that being said, CJ Wiley introduced his TOI style of play. Since it too does not employ trying to hit the center of the CB, I stared investigating it & found it to have some advantages. Just this week I was finally able to pocket balls by alignning the Center of the CB to either just the Center or Edge of the OB (it is then hit with the tip inside using CB 'squirt' to create the angle needed). Then there is the CTE/Pro1 of Stan Shuffet that is becoming very popular.

So, to answer your question, I would say yes there are aiming systems that can be taught. Now that being said, I think 'feel' will become a part of them as well, but they are a good basis from which to start.

Just my $0.02 quick thoughts.

Best Regards,
 
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Thank you!

Thank you very much for your sharing your thoughts and experience with me! Definitely food for thought for me now.

Sincerely,

Taemin

Thanks Taemin for the explanation.

What you just said is basically what my Dad told me when I was 13 years old (I'm 59 now). He also showed me the basic line a ball would take without ever using the words 'ghost ball'. From there, he set me on my own & let me learn & develope my own feel. I developed an equal & opposite overlap of portions of the CB & OB. I developed this on my own & never assigned any numbers such as 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, etc. because there are an infinite number. I started using english very quickly when I realized that no matter how good my stroke was I could not guarantee that I would not hit just a bit off center & mis certain shots. So I then started shooting nearly every shot with either outside or inside english.

All that being said, CJ Wiley introduced his TOI style of play. Since it too does not employ trying to hit the center of the CB, I stared investigating it & found it to have some advantages. Just this week I was finally able to pocket balls by alignning the Center of the CB to either just the Center or Edge of the OB (it is then hit with the tip inside using CB 'squirt' to create the angle needed). Then there is the CTE/Pro1 of Stan Shuffet that is becoming very popular.

So, to answer your question, I would say yes there are aiming systems that can be taught. Now that being said, I think 'feel' will become a part of them as well, but they are a good basis from which to start.

Just my $0.02 quick thoughts.

Best Regards,
 
Keith McCready was hustling when he was a teen back in the days when no one taught you how to shoot...they wanted your money.

There are bangers that have been shooting for 40 years that can't run a rack.

Yes, there are naturals.
 
I think most people are "naturals" at aiming. If you go to a real pool hall and ask people if they use an aiming system, most will probably look at you funny.

Here on AZ, its a hotly debated topic. I'm approaching 20 yrs of my life wasted in the pool halls, and don't recall more than maybe 3 conversations with anyone about aiming, or hearing others have a conversation about aiming in all those years.
 
I think most people are "naturals" at aiming. If you go to a real pool hall and ask people if they use an aiming system, most will probably look at you funny.

Here on AZ, its a hotly debated topic. I'm approaching 20 yrs of my life wasted in the pool halls, and don't recall more than maybe 3 conversations with anyone about aiming, or hearing others have a conversation about aiming in all those years.

Don't you think the people who are not naturals would/could benefit from using an aiming system?
 
Don't you think the people who are not naturals would/could benefit from using an aiming system?

I think most people are naturals at aiming but their stroke is the main problem. Now naturals may be people who have better hand eye coordination which in turn have better strokes and can send the cue on the desired line. No aiming system will help that much if you are always putting unintentional spin on the cue ball or something. That being side I think pretty much any aiming system will work if you have a good stroke.
 
Don't you think the people who are not naturals would/could benefit from using an aiming system?

No, I really don't. I'm not trying to be an azz, but I believe each one of us has an inherent natural ability when it comes to athleticism. Within 5 years of picking up a cue, every player I know has reached a plateau. Sure, some might get "slightly" better after that, but that improvement usually comes due to seasoning, pressure handling, more thought to strategy, etc. Not due to the ability to strike the shot more accurately.

I don't think it matters if you never picked up a single pool book, or had the best aiming coach in the universe show you. Within a few short years, your mind/body/eye connection is made, and that's it. That's your speed for life.

Many will disagree with me, but just look around your own pool room and you will see the same thing. Its also the same thing in every other sport on the planet.
 
No, I really don't. I'm not trying to be an azz, but I believe each one of us has an inherent natural ability when it comes to athleticism. Within 5 years of picking up a cue, every player I know has reached a plateau. Sure, some might get "slightly" better after that, but that improvement usually comes due to seasoning, pressure handling, more thought to strategy, etc. Not due to the ability to strike the shot more accurately.

I don't think it matters if you never picked up a single pool book, or had the best aiming coach in the universe show you. Within a few short years, your mind/body/eye connection is made, and that's it. That's your speed for life.

Many will disagree with me, but just look around your own pool room and you will see the same thing. Its also the same thing in every other sport on the planet.

I believe anyone that has hit a plateau has accepted and/or is comfortable at that plateau. This is difficult to discuss because everyone has his or her own personal goals. Now, do not underestimate the ability to strike the ball accurately with 100% confidence! All pro’s have that ability! They can get out of line, etc and have the confidence to make ‘That Shot’ and continue the run. I do believe strategy, seasoning, etc is very important as well.

I can be off on my shape a bit or patterns during a game and still run out and win. I can be perfect on my shape and patterns but if I rattle a ball, I could be done?

Does Shane try to play exact shape or does he just try to keep the cb in a good position out of danger? I can tell you I bet one thing he tries to be perfect at and that is sinking the ob.

I do not believe after a few short years a mind/body/eye connection is made and that is your speed for life. I am not 100% sure of what you mean by this so I won't discuss it unless you rephrase it?

I also seen your youtube video and you look very systematic with your aiming style. What do you see yourself doing that is different than let us say a pro1 user in your method of aim?

I am not trying to be an ass also but killing time and see who is up for a discussion. If I come across as offensive, you do not need to answer my posts... its all good :thumbup:
 
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I believe anyone that has hit a plateau has accepted and/or is comfortable at that plateau. This is difficult to discuss because everyone has his or her own personal goals. Now, do not underestimate the ability to strike the ball accurately with 100% confidence! All pro’s have that ability! They can get out of line, etc and have the confidence to make ‘That Shot’ and continue the run. I do believe strategy, seasoning, etc is very important as well.

I can be off on my shape a bit or patterns during a game and still run out and win. I can be perfect on my shape and patterns but if I rattle a ball, I could be done?

Does Shane try to play exact shape or does he just try to keep the cb in a good position out of danger? I can tell you I bet one thing he tries to be perfect at and that is sinking the ob.

I do not believe after a few short years a mind/body/eye connection is made and that is your speed for life. I am not 100% sure of what you mean by this so I won't discuss it unless you rephrase it?

I also seen your youtube video and you look very systematic with your aiming style. What do you see yourself doing that is different than let us say a pro1 user in your method of aim?

I am not trying to be an ass also but killing time and see who is up for a discussion. If I come across as offensive, you do not need to answer my posts... its all good :thumbup:

Its simple its the age old debate of nature vs nurture. I'm firmly on the nature side. We won't get to the bottom of that millennia long debate in this thread, for sure:)

I suck at all sports. I have no talent, or hand eye coordination, or athleticism, whatever you want to call it. It is what it is. If I were to spend a year solid with an instructor, it wouldn't make a difference. I'd still lose to the same guys, and beat the same guys. I played softball for 10 years, and they always stuck me in right field where no one hit the ball cause I can't catch the ball.

My video is very methodical. A few years ago I really worked on my own to find a repeatable way to get into the same stance. What you saw in the video is what I found to work best for me after days of trying different approaches. What prompted me to look for a new approach, (after playing for 15 years), was I purposely lined up off center on my stance, to see if my pocketing suffered. I mean way off line, like 6 inches off. After a few test shots, I saw it did. So I concluded if I get my stance and alignment perfect, I'd be more likely to pocket the ball.

CTE I only know what I've read on here, and several youtube video's I've seen on it and its variations. I never saw Stan's video on it (I don't want to after reading about it for years). So I cant comment exactly how it works. But I'm with the science guys in that it makes absolutely no sense TO ME (I don't want to debate that here, its been debated for years, and you are obviously a former member so you know all the debates as well)

Believe me, I've tried many things over the years. The only way I get better now is by learning a new shot or strategy. And that only bumps your speed very slightly.

If someone had a way to improve athleticism, hand eye coordination, etc, I'd be all ears. But suggesting that an aiming system is going to improve someones play I don't believe.

Its like the tip debate. The pros use the full spectrum of tips available, and they all play jam up. Its not the tip. The amateur on the other hand thinks the tip might mean something. It means absolutely nothing. I feel the same way about aiming. So many interviews and articles have been around about pros and aiming. They all do different things, or don't even know what they do. Yet they all can make any shot. Just like any tip can make any shot.

Its not the tip, its not the aiming system (or non-systme).

Those are my 3 cents:)
 
I will only say this, have you ever play those guys that never seem to miss a shot and the the pressure on you automatically jumps 3x more than normal :thumbup: The most physical and best athletic person is not usually the best in any given sport, its all about HOW you use whats between your ears. Never close your mind to something new or different :thumbup:
 
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Yes I have. I've argued with people that can just beat the ghost that they'd lose to a top pro getting break and bih due to the pressure of the pro being there and shooting lights out (instead if the ghost that never misses but doesbt actually shoot to intimidate).

I understand that. I also understand keeping an open mind.

But none of that means an aiming system is of any benefit;)
 
Yes I have. I've argued with people that can just beat the ghost that they'd lose to a top pro getting break and bih due to the pressure of the pro being there and shooting lights out (instead if the ghost that never misses but doesbt actually shoot to intimidate).

I understand that. I also understand keeping an open mind.

But none of that means an aiming system is of any benefit;)

haha :thumbup: your system of aiming you created for yourself seemed to work pretty good for you in that video. Now if your capable of describing step by step in a bit of detail what you are doing to me I will give your system a try next time I am at a table ;)
 
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I don't have an aiming system, I use feel. I don't see edges of the balls, or centers of the balls, or spots on the balls, or spots on the table, or shadows on the table, or edges of the ferrule, or parts of the ferrule, etc etc. My mind just knows when the picture it is seeing is correct for all the circumstances of the shot at hand.
 
Yes I have. I've argued with people that can just beat the ghost that they'd lose to a top pro getting break and bih due to the pressure of the pro being there and shooting lights out (instead if the ghost that never misses but doesbt actually shoot to intimidate).

I understand that. I also understand keeping an open mind.

But none of that means an aiming system is of any benefit;)

Do you think the results would be the same in above scenario if you just re-racked the balls instead of letting the pro run out the rack? DO you think it would make a difference psychologically just shooting in front of the pro?
 
Yes there are naturals. And yes some professionals have systematic aiming methods that they may or may not share with others.
 
I am going to try CTE and TOI

I will first try and really give my all to CTE PRO, then possibly TOI after extensive reading the past few days here. Can't knock something 'til you try it yourself is my stance. ((hope I didn't come across as doing so)

I also would like to share the only system I use currently and absolutely adore, the Zero-X Kicking system. I've mastered the Kicking system (numbering of diamonds and use addition/subtraction) and can quite frankly kick with the best of them. I'm able to easily kick safe, kick to pocket, or simply kick to contact in an Alcatraz-like trap. That's a system I learned very easily because there are no moving parts - just diamonds and math.

Thanks all. :smile:
 
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I don't think it matters if you never picked up a single pool book, or had the best aiming coach in the universe show you. Within a few short years, your mind/body/eye connection is made, and that's it. That's your speed for life.

Many will disagree with me, but just look around your own pool room and you will see the same thing. Its also the same thing in every other sport on the planet.

That's not true. I took some instruction at 50 years old, found and corrected some lifelong habits and my speed went up from any previous level in my life. This wouldn't have been possible with other sports I played as a youth. No wonder you're not rich any more:smile:

JC
 
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