Or owing everyone money
Are you a Professional...
- Thread starter Guy Manges
- Start date
Half of that list making that summer job money! The old Toro kept me in smokes and dope, probably paid better too.
Back in the day, I read that, you have guys that are just money players and guys that are just tournament players.over recent years it's hard to say your a pro, if there is not much money in the game. I would think only the very top players are able to make living from it.
What's happening now in the game, you've got more of a chance than ever to be considered a pro.That being said, you still have to have a lot going for you, and luck on your side,to make IT!!!!!
What's happening now in the game, you've got more of a chance than ever to be considered a pro.That being said, you still have to have a lot going for you, and luck on your side,to make IT!!!!!
I was at a tournament just last weekend and heard that a couple of players competing just got barred from playing in the APA. I won't name the names as it's not my business to do so but both of these 700+ fargo rated players hold regular jobs. Just that they were too good and getting complaints from other players. Are they pro's or not? hmmm......
700 Fargo is a bit too strong for any league except maybe the USAPL or BCA where the handicaps go up high enough. It takes maybe a B+ player to max out APA, TAP or NAPA handicaps which is 550-600. They are then playing everyone over them even as well, and the 700 Fargo is giving the 300 Fargo the same handicap as a 600 would. My son is a 620-630 in Fargo, he is in the top 8 or 10 TAP players in the country for wins, even with the handicaps and that is a rating that as 700 would play a 7-5 race against. So imagine that 700 against some APA 4 that is a 300/350 Fargo? The 4 is likely to make maybe 6 balls a set if the 700 was trying. They would either run out on the bar table or the other guy is kicking or facing some really hard shot. Karen Corr is a 720ish player, would she be allowed to play in the APA? How about Jeanette Lee who is a 652? I'm sure she would not be allowed also. Kennedy who won the US open is a 731, think he will be allowed in a normal league? Then there is Emily Duddy who has "pro player" all over her bio and is a 604. Technically she is a "pro" and even talks about herself that way but I'm sure she would be OK to be in the APA since there are probably a dozen APA players in a city with her that are equal or better.
"Pro" is just a skill rank for pool, except maybe for the women, you can qualify to play in one of the women "pro" events as a B player easily.
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Great observation
I think there are three different definitions that are valid in response to the question... "What declares a pool player a pro". These all take different perspectives, and really focus in on what the questioner means when they say "pro".
1. I agree with individuals that say an individual that makes his/her livelihood off of playing the game tournaments and/or gambling... can be considered a professional pool player. Other examples would include professional musicians who play gigs for money, while not being famous, known across the country, still show a level of professionalism enough that I see them as professional musicians. As opposed to hobbyists.
2. I agree with the individuals that say a professional pool player is the elite group of players that play at the top of the Fargo-Rate and are competitive at the highest levels of national and international tournaments.
3. I would add that some people would define pro players and individuals who can play "Pro-Speed" on any given day. These players may not be on the tour (I know there isn't a formal tour, but I think most people know what I mean here), but could be competitive against tour players given the opportunity. By this definition, I think the high level short stops would be considered Pro-Speed players..... In that their skill levels are closer to those on the top of the list then those in the middle/bottom.
I think we could al think of the types of players that would fit into these three categories. Category 1 players would be top touring pro's as well as local short stops or house pro's....... Category 2 would include player at the top of the Fargo Rate List..... the reason I don't like this definition as much as Category 3 is because there are several players listed in the low-mid 700's that most of the United States would consider pro level players, for them, I favor the Category 3 definition. There are commonalities as well as specific uniquenesses of all three of these definitions. I think the single most common characteristic is that their play level (excluding only the best hustlers) far exceeds the lower to mid level players in any/most pool rooms.
AN IMPORTANT POINT: And this can save a lot of people money when gambling/backing players in pool. There is a large variety of talent at the professional level of pool. In other words, the very best in the world "Elite" players, are significantly better than the lower level pro's. This is true in other sports like football... The greatest NFL quarterbacks are significantly better than the lower level albeit still professional lower level quarterbacks..... Why is this important...... Take some of the recent one pocket games....I'm not trying to name names, but we have professional players playing against "Elite" players... for fairly substantial amounts of money.......... The odds in these games in my opinion are HUGELY stacked toward the "Elite" players, even though they aren't known for playing one pocket.... In short, I don' think most people recognize the difference in professional player and "Elite" player. Understanding this can make/save you a lot of money if you gamble on pool matches.
Peace,
Chris
I always questioned the handicap template they use(d) in tournaments; townaments more like. Nobody could come up with a list of qualifications. The only specs were how the letters/numbers determined the handicaps - which, when applied to single sets, further watered the matches. There is no player certification system. Instructors have a more stringent vetting process. SO,
so put pool in public education curriculum form. All the basics: what it is, technique, theory, physics and so on.
I think pool as mystery starship is long gone.
so put pool in public education curriculum form. All the basics: what it is, technique, theory, physics and so on.
I think pool as mystery starship is long gone.
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Pro can be a nebulous term. Unless it comes from a recognized association, then its a legit title. For example, on the Mens Pro Billiard Tour. You could join the tour as a player just by paying a registration fee and getting an ID card. If you win or place in a couple tournaments in one year you can move up in rank. Each tier takes you closer to the title "Professional Pool Player". I think there is more to it than just making money. A guy who makes a buck a game on a bar table in the local tavern could call himself a professional pool player by that definition, but I wouldn't bet on him in a tournament.
Just this year, I and massive host of players that merely put effort into their games have been excluded from the Canadian Amateurs. The cut off was something ridiculous like a fargo of 630.
Yes we all still have the Open event, but that puts me up against the likes of Morra and Alex. Not to mentioned tons of guys in the mid 700's.
My fav hypocrisy when regarding "pro" and league...: Abrin Schaad the winner of the top APA tier this year in Vegas
Recent runner up to Skylar, and came out ahead of SVB and Morra
Finally... Rated at 770 and lands in the top 12 in the USA
Abe has grown his game through hard work no doubt, but to allow him to play APA is a farce. Note, the APA booted Skylar for less success
APA is a mess anyway when it comes to handicap policing and keeping the skill level reasonable. There was a finals match streamed and on YouTube for teams where one of the players who was a 5, had over a 600 Fargo rating, which would make him a solid 7. APA is run like Russia, depends on how well you can play the system with the mafia to sneak by the honest folk.
I call this type of thing "purposeful ignorance", it takes 2 minutes to check if a player is too good to be in the APA but everyone just sticks their heads in the sand and does not actually do it, just tossing their arms in the air and say "we will look into it but no one has informed us of this fact". I mean Jeanette Lee and Ewa are APA league owners, do they want us to think that those two don't know when a player is too strong for their "amateur" league or is sandbagging?
With Fargo ratings out there and taking 30 seconds to find a player, no-one can be bothered to actually do that? Highly unlikely anyone is that lazy or ignorant of how to find out skill, they just don't like rocking the boat to toss the cheaters overboard. IMHO anyone near 700 rating should not be allowed in a league with a hard cap on skill like APA or TAP. 650 is more like it, and even then that is a player that is well over the lower max players. I've heard people complain locally about a guy in the APA that is about a 620 that he was a "pro" and no wonder he beats people. This is with the top handicap you can be in the league, so with him him being a 7/9 handicap in APA that is not enough to keep other players from not liking the handicap level for his skill as a 620. And a 620 is a normal A player rating, not even a top A player.
The other side if this, is we are telling players that worked hard to get better they can't join the others to have fun playing in restricted tournaments and leagues, and it can be hard to find events to play in at a higher level. There are a ton of tournaments in the area that even as a 550 I can't play in because they restrict the max to like APA 5s or 6s, and I'm just a B+ player. Really the solution is to have the handicap system tweaked so APA can go up to as high as it needs to for the skill level of those that are 600-700, so A through A+ or Open levels. If you can have a 580 Fargo player be a 9, make a 10 for 630 and a 11 for 670 or something. It's like having car races for cars with 300hp up to 700hp, so you will have some 6 cylinder cars going up against V8 Turbos with double the power and no one can possibly think that is a fair matchup.
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I think both view points are valid. Both view points being 1) making all of not the majority of your income from pool competition and 2) playing at a pro speed. If I remember correctly, there was a time where Karen Corr was working at a bath and body works between long tournament stretches. No one would say that Karen wasn't a womens pro pool player. I also think that if you get paid to shoot pool, then that adds to being a professional. I play at what people would consider pro speed for artistic pool (trickshots) and get paid to do exhibitions, but I have a full time job that is 85%-90% of my income. Pool in general, especially in the states, has no classification on what a pro is.
Successful professional don’t live & sleep in car, drive a Yugo, bum smokes, or need stake horse.
Here’s my answer. If amateur events stop letting you participate, you’re a pro.
What's the difference between a pizza and a pro pool player?Know how a pro poolplayer can get 20% better gas mileage???? Take the 'Dominos' sign off the roof.
A pizza feeds a family of four!!!
How many are making a full tike living off pool in the US? It's under 10 people. No future in this game.