Are you a Professional...

Guy Manges

Registered
What declares a pool player a pro ? If you play pool for a living are you a pro. If you play in a pro tournament are you a pro. If you pay money and join a PPPA does that make a pro ? Is there any sport that you can play for a living and not be a pro... Guy
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What declares a pool player a pro ? If you play pool for a living are you a pro. If you play in a pro tournament are you a pro. If you pay money and join a PPPA does that make a pro ? Is there any sport that you can play for a living and not be a pro... Guy
Why does this matter? Planning on going pro?
 

Zerksies

Well-known member
Minimum definition of a professional is you make a living at it. Now how pool players can make money is different then most pro sports either with Tournaments, cash games, instruction etc. I've known a few guys that are Pro-level and never did much with it, but that's what we have ratings for. I've also seen instructors that I would never call pro level and they are making their living giving instruction.
 

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
We so often come back to this question here on AZB, and it's no easier to answer than before. For starters, just like in golf, we have playing pros and teaching pros, and I believe that those who make their primary living from teaching pool have every right to call themselves pool pros.

... but I suspect the question in the original post is about what constitutes a playing pro. Certainly, anybody who derives their primary living from competing at pool is a pro. In America, there may be only about 10 of these. I tend to define a pro more liberally than that, including players who play pro speed. I've waffled on this over the years, but I think pro speed means at least Fargo 725 and, at times, I've even put that number as high as 740.

These days, however, I find I'm playing devil's advocate with myself. Those who compete at pool regularly with little chance of showing a profit over expense in a given year, are, in my assessment, hobbyists paying for either the joy or privilege of competing.

Pro pool is more robust than it has been in quite some time and more players can make financial ends meet than in many years. Nonetheless, outside of those focusing on the scraps available to them in regional action, I don't think many players under Fargo 770 are capable of having earnings that exceed their participation expenses.

My fellow AZB poster JAM has done the best at pointing this out, but she's right --- despite pro pool's growth, undeniable in most respects due to the fine efforts of Matchroom, CSI/Predator and some other event producers, pool is still a lucrative career for disappointingly few.

So then, what's a pro pool player? I know I'll change my mind down the road, but for now it's a player who either makes their primary income from competition or has a reasonable expectation of doing so in the future. For me, that means either Fargo 770+ or someone who can reasonably expect to reach that level (and there are many such players).
 
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Zerksies

Well-known member
We so often come back to this question here on AZB, and it's no easier to answer than before. For starters, just like in golf, we have playing pros and teaching pros, and I believe that those who make their primary living from teaching pool have every right to call themselves pool pros.

... but I suspect the question in the original post is about what constitutes a playing pro. Certainly, anybody who derives their primary living from competing at pool is a pro. In American, there may be only about 10 of these. I tend to define a pro more liberally than that, including players who play pro speed. I've waffled on this over the years, but I think pro speed means at least Fargo 725 and, at times, I've even put that number as high as 740.

These days, however, I find I'm playing devil's advocate with myself. Those who compete at pool regularly with little chance of showing a profit over expense in a given year, are, in my assessment, hobbyists paying for either the joy or privilege of competing.

Pro pool is more robust than it has been in quite some time and more players can make financial ends meet than in many years. Nonetheless, outside of those focusing on the scraps available to them in regional action, I don't think many players under Fargo 770 are capable of having earnings that exceed their participation expenses.

My fellow AZB poster JAM has done the best at pointing this out, but she's right --- despite pro pool's growth, undeniable in some respects due to the fine efforts of Matchroom, CSI/Predator and some other event producers, pool is still a lucrative career for disappointingly few.

So then, what's a pro pool player? I know I'll change my mind down the road, but for now it's a player who either makes their primary income from competition or has a reasonable expectation of doing so in the future. For me, that means either Fargo 770+ or someone who can reasonably expect to reach that level (and there are many such players).
Well put, I'd say 100% accurate.
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
There was a time when there were known pros and unknown pros. The unknown pros, as in not known to the general public, substantially outnumbered the pros. I knew many of these guys over the years, most always open for any hustle not just pool. Most had a passing acquaintance with the gray bar hotel, local and county more than state and federal level.

I was a one trick pony myself, I played pool. I could take anyone that came through the door on a given night, I could lose too. As the other local unknowns soon learned, I won a lot more than I lost. Pool was for fun most of the time, the money wasn't important. A few times I was out of work for months, I made a living at pool, never a late payment or bill I am proud to say. However having to meet a daily or weekly nut took a lot of fun out of pool and I was glad to go back to work when a day job came along. I never considered myself a professional even when making a living at pool. Pool was in such poor shape I didn't consider anyone a pro pool player.

Today I would say anyone that plays in most of the larger pro events is a pro or aspiring pro. Most hopefuls don't make it to true pro's. That takes skill, luck, and marketability. Without luck and marketability you have to be able to beat the world's top dozen as often as not. In 1973 or so I considered going pro. To do that without a big chunk of my earnings coming from gambling I figured I would have to be in the top six or eight in the US, which meant in the world at that time. I didn't like my odds!

Hu
 

Zerksies

Well-known member
There was a time when there were known pros and unknown pros. The unknown pros, as in not known to the general public, substantially outnumbered the pros. I knew many of these guys over the years, most always open for any hustle not just pool. Most had a passing acquaintance with the gray bar hotel, local and county more than state and federal level.

I was a one trick pony myself, I played pool. I could take anyone that came through the door on a given night, I could lose too. As the other local unknowns soon learned, I won a lot more than I lost. Pool was for fun most of the time, the money wasn't important. A few times I was out of work for months, I made a living at pool, never a late payment or bill I am proud to say. However having to meet a daily or weekly nut took a lot of fun out of pool and I was glad to go back to work when a day job came along. I never considered myself a professional even when making a living at pool. Pool was in such poor shape I didn't consider anyone a pro pool player.

Today I would say anyone that plays in most of the larger pro events is a pro or aspiring pro. Most hopefuls don't make it to true pro's. That takes skill, luck, and marketability. Without luck and marketability you have to be able to beat the world's top dozen as often as not. In 1973 or so I considered going pro. To do that without a big chunk of my earnings coming from gambling I figured I would have to be in the top six or eight in the US, which meant in the world at that time. I didn't like my odds!

Hu
It's funny the best player in the world is probably someone no one has ever heard of.
 
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