Are you a Professional...

Back when there was action you didn’t have to play great to grind out enough $ to live on. It wasn’t the greatest way to make ends meet, but it was possible to not have a job, play good and earn a living. Is that a pro? You tell me.


Those days are long gone. Now you can play great and need a job or other ways to feed yourself. Is playing great make you a pro? I don’t know.

Making a living and playing great are kinda linked together now. But not so much as in the past.

Knowing how to gamble is as important as playing good if you want to make $.

However with so little action, that’s kinda out of the window too

Best
Fatboy <———misses the action days
 
Fatboy said:
Back when there was action you didn’t have to play great to grind out enough $ to live on. It wasn’t the greatest way to make ends meet, but it was possible to not have a job, play good and earn a living. Is that a pro? You tell me.


Those days are long gone. Now you can play great and need a job or other ways to feed yourself. Is playing great make you a pro? I don’t know.

Making a living and playing great are kinda linked together now. But not so much as in the past.

Knowing how to gamble is as important as playing good if you want to make $.

However with so little action, that’s kinda out of the window too

Best
Fatboy <———misses the action days
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When I got out of the Marine Corps in late 1969 I was collecting $59 a week unemployment and scuffling in the pool room for $10 or $20 on most days.
Good times that I miss.
 
Fatboy said:
Back when there was action you didn’t have to play great to grind out enough $ to live on. It wasn’t the greatest way to make ends meet, but it was possible to not have a job, play good and earn a living. Is that a pro? You tell me.


Those days are long gone. Now you can play great and need a job or other ways to feed yourself. Is playing great make you a pro? I don’t know.

Making a living and playing great are kinda linked together now. But not so much as in the past.

Knowing how to gamble is as important as playing good if you want to make $.

However with so little action, that’s kinda out of the window too

Best
Fatboy <———misses the action days
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Knowing how to gamble is more important than knowing how to play good.
 
Guy Manges said:
What declares a pool player a pro ? If you play pool for a living are you a pro. If you play in a pro tournament are you a pro. If you pay money and join a PPPA does that make a pro ? Is there any sport that you can play for a living and not be a pro... Guy
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This has been a thing talked about often, no real answer. Since there is no national or world wide "Pro Tour" or organization to join, and many tournaments are open to anyone to sign up, the only way to rank a "pro" is by how well they play. Not all great players can earn enough in tournaments to make a living at it (at least not just from tournaments, gambling is another thing). Anyone past an A+ player can be said to be a "pro" in pool.

Anyone that arbitrarily calls someone a pro because they played in some tournament with good players does not have a good idea of the pool world, or secondary sports in general where tournaments are mostly open to anyone. One needs to look at not only if they played, but how well they did. Playing in the Ocean State in RI for example, anyone can play, but you need to be a top regional player to win it or come in say top 4. Same thing in the US Open, you can be a C player and enter, but you are likely to lose the first two games, and if you can finish say top 32 in that, you may be considered a "pro".
 
sjm said:
We so often come back to this question here on AZB, and it's no easier to answer than before. For starters, just like in golf, we have playing pros and teaching pros, and I believe that those who make their primary living from teaching pool have every right to call themselves pool pros.

... but I suspect the question in the original post is about what constitutes a playing pro. Certainly, anybody who derives their primary living from competing at pool is a pro. In America, there may be only about 10 of these. I tend to define a pro more liberally than that, including players who play pro speed. I've waffled on this over the years, but I think pro speed means at least Fargo 725 and, at times, I've even put that number as high as 740.

These days, however, I find I'm playing devil's advocate with myself. Those who compete at pool regularly with little chance of showing a profit over expense in a given year, are, in my assessment, hobbyists paying for either the joy or privilege of competing.

Pro pool is more robust than it has been in quite some time and more players can make financial ends meet than in many years. Nonetheless, outside of those focusing on the scraps available to them in regional action, I don't think many players under Fargo 770 are capable of having earnings that exceed their participation expenses.

My fellow AZB poster JAM has done the best at pointing this out, but she's right --- despite pro pool's growth, undeniable in most respects due to the fine efforts of Matchroom, CSI/Predator and some other event producers, pool is still a lucrative career for disappointingly few.

So then, what's a pro pool player? I know I'll change my mind down the road, but for now it's a player who either makes their primary income from competition or has a reasonable expectation of doing so in the future. For me, that means either Fargo 770+ or someone who can reasonably expect to reach that level (and there are many such players).
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Maybe thousands of people on this earth that play pool for a living... Most never heard of Fargo, I guess what I'm trying to say is that our pool ( pocket billiards ) in the USA will always have to have gambling in order to exist... Have all our pros been gamblers in order to become pros... Stu do you think this will ever change ?
 
Fatboy said:
Knowing how to gamble is as important as playing good if you want to make $.
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Spinning off that very correct observation, Eric, is an enigma I personally witnessed time and again at pool tournaments held in casinos:

More than a few mid-level and top US pros in the past were extremely sharp gamblers when it came to making money competing at pool or betting on the scheduled or after hours pool action, but were self-destructively inept and compulsively reckless at the dice and poker tables -- mindlessly throwing away all of the year's pool winnings with foolish misjudgments, trying futilely to recoup their losses, betting higher and higher at the wrong times.

It was as if they were innocent of any knowledge about the odds in most dice or poker situations or accurately reading the behavior of surrounding players at those tables.

Arnaldo
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sjm said:
Not likely, but if there's anyone out there who likes their chances in action against Josh Filler (Fargo 837), they can probably bet as high as they like. The days of having to hide your speed to make a financial killing are behind us.
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Stu you see the first recourse to that from anyone is a BET... This is all we know...
 
Guy Manges said:
Maybe thousands of people on this earth that play pool for a living... Most never heard of Fargo, I guess what I'm trying to say is that our pool ( pocket billiards ) in the USA will always have to have gambling in order to exist... Have all our pros been gamblers in order to become pros... Stu do you think this will ever change ?
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Playing pool for a living doesn't make you a pro. Hustlers and/or strong players, no matter how skilled, who have played in action only and have never had any ties to or affiliations with the legitimate pro pool scene are not pros. Some of them are very successful as professional gamblers, but they are not professional pool players.

I don't have a problem with the presence of the gambling scene as a possible training ground for or supplement to a career in pro pool and, as you suggest, it's probably here to stay.
 
sjm said:
Playing pool for a living doesn't make you a pro. Hustlers and/or strong players, no matter how skilled, who have played in action only and have never had any ties to or affiliations with the legitimate pro pool scene are not pros. Some of them are very successful as professional gamblers, but they are not professional pool players.

I don't have a problem with the presence of the gambling scene as a possible training ground for or supplement to a career in pro pool and, as you suggest, it's probably here to stay.
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I'm thinking you will see this change, the gambling will come in from the big money and not the small money and this pool will become a sport... Guy
 
arnaldo said:
Spinning off that very correct observation, Eric, is an enigma I personally witnessed time and again at pool tournaments held in casinos:

More than a few mid-level and top US pros in the past were extremely sharp gamblers when it came to making money competing at pool or betting on the scheduled or after hours pool action, but were self-destructively inept and compulsively reckless at the dice and poker tables -- mindlessly throwing away all of the year's pool winnings with foolish misjudgments, trying futilely to recoup their losses, betting higher and higher at the wrong times.

It was as if they were innocent of any knowledge about the odds in most dice or poker situations or accurately reading the behavior of surrounding players at those tables.

Arnaldo
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Min. Fats...
 
sjm said:
For starters, just like in golf, we have playing pros and teaching pros,
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I would also like to consider a category for "former pro", the reason is because I played tennis with a lady in her 50's who I know competed on the pro tennis circuit way back in her younger years......she is still a fine tennis player, but nowhere near pro level.......

(although in tennis you are no longer competitive past 50, while in pool and golf you could be)
 
michael4 said:
I would also like to consider a category for "former pro", the reason is because I played tennis with a lady in her 50's who I know competed on the pro tennis circuit way back in her younger years......she is still a fine tennis player, but nowhere near pro level.......

(although in tennis you are no longer competitive past 50, while in pool and golf you could be)
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You could be thriving in your 50's with pool.
 
arnaldo said:
Spinning off that very correct observation, Eric, is an enigma I personally witnessed time and again at pool tournaments held in casinos:

More than a few mid-level and top US pros in the past were extremely sharp gamblers when it came to making money competing at pool or betting on the scheduled or after hours pool action, but were self-destructively inept and compulsively reckless at the dice and poker tables -- mindlessly throwing away all of the year's pool winnings with foolish misjudgments, trying futilely to recoup their losses, betting higher and higher at the wrong times.

It was as if they were innocent of any knowledge about the odds in most dice or poker situations or accurately reading the behavior of surrounding players at those tables.

Arnaldo
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I’ve seen that as well-more times than I can count.

I have known sports bettors who book and make millions and turn right around and give it back at the casino’s.

Never made sense to me.

Living in Vegas all those years and being around gambling in pool rooms, poker, other things and seeing sharp guys piss it away at the dice table-I just don’t get it. Craps is dead money. No matter what you lose. Period.

Fatboy<——-has no leaks

Making bad bets happens in gambling. Casinos aren’t gambling-that’s just losing
 
Take the Azbilliards money list and if you can win against the top 30 players on that list your a professional. Congratulations you've made it!
 
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