Article by Badi Nazhat

Grow pool by attracting the typical non pool player.

A lot of pool is math and physics. Angles, friction spin, geometry, etc.. Get it into the education system. Kids will enjoy having a way to relate what they are learning to a recreational activity.

How cool would it be for the math and physics nerds to beat the jocks in pool ? Want to keep the jocks excited ? Measure break speed or CB impact force on the OB.

Are donations to the education system tax deductible ? If Brunswick and Diamond donated tables is that a charitable tax deduction ?
 
JB Cases said:
You grow the sport - or any activity - by growing the number of participants and keeping them.

Of course regular league players often don't know about one pocket. But the very fact that Jane Doe is playing POOL instead of on bowling league means that there are more folks beside her doing the same thing. And out of a larger amount of people playing comes more people who get into pool in a deeper way who do learn what one pocket is and want to play it.

In other words a larger pie feeds more people. And with a larger stable base pool can find money to produce shows that make pool interesting. Snooker is freaking BORING but the production of it has made it interesting. In China there are at least three magazines that are REAL glossy heavy books devoted mainly to snooker players with in-depth interviews and tons of content. They actually have ads for giant brand names in them.

In England the exploits of Snooker stars are tabloid material. Ok that's how it developed and Snooker had the backing of the BBC early as a test bed for all their broadcasting innovations. But it shows that a boring game can be made interesting for the non-playing public. People will care for and cheer for players they get to know.

Ok it's 2013 in America and the question is whether there is any room in the average American's mind to spend on pool and pool players? I don't know. But I do know that when I see adults on Facebook showing pictures of a backpack with the images of the Duck Dynasty characters on it and saying how much they want one then I have to believe that the beautiful game of pool can be packaged and sold to these people because we certainly have some characters that are more interesting than the Duck Dynasty guys.

But if no one actually writes the script and no one hits the road to sell it then it's a certainty that all we will have is continued hand-wringing and lamenting how bad off pool is. And you're right, in some senses pool is not broken, there are still rooms, there are still tournaments, there is still some action. Pool addicts will always be around.

The game itself in all the various forms will never die. Will it ever reach the heights it deserves? Maybe not, probably not, but it would be nice in my lifetime to see pool and its players be well known and well regarded among the general public. At the very least and well before that I think that pool in the USA can become consistent and stable with a pro tour and a broad base to support it.

That's doable right now with the resources we have with no need to look outside the industry.

Instead of sitting on the sidelines I call for Mark and Badi and Greg and likeminded people to get together and be the change they want to see rather than hoping others will see the errors of their ways and come to the table.
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Deserve to be? And just what do you think that should be ,, what I find most entertaining is this belief the pro pool players should be paid on par and or recognized like other professional sports.

1
 
one stroke said:
Deserve to be? And just what do you think that should be ,, what I find most entertaining is this belief the pro pool players should be paid on par and or recognized like other professional sports.

1
Click to expand...

Yes, I think that as a sport this one deserves to be held in the same regard as other professional sports like tennis and golf and boxing, basically any individual competitive sport.

However I don't think that professionals deserve money JUST for being professionals. I think that if there is a fan base to support the professional game then the professionals should be able to make a very good living entertaining us.
 
Deja Vu

It was easy reading All the threads....wording started to eventually go round and round. Having been part of Three pro organizations in my years of play, and having worked for the BCA, and having owned my own non-smoking/drinking pool room and taught and on and on over forty years...I look at it from a perspective that Blankets the entire industries thinking.

I've always said, our industry is like a farmer. They will gladly go out and pick the apples, but are NOT willing to prep and tend to the fields before planting. The Mosconi days with Brunswick Planted the fields, and set matters in motion. Willie was at one time the highest paid athlete on the planet. The pro scene has always been cued up to ''what's in it for ME''. Seeing some of the Great European player Exude class/respect/and humbleness is something RARELY every seen amongst the American Herd but it's greatly appreciated, because of their respect for the game and what it truly is, and gambling was NOT at their core thinking. The only way I see it changing is to start with youth and rebuild the entire system from the bottom up, but in a simple and realistic manner. If someone out their can get Badi to respond to the email I sent him, I can help put proper perspective to the mess. I expect this NOT to happen, but I'll keep trying. Sometimes you have to Open many doors to get where ya want to go. Each time you open a door and it gets shut, it helps one with the tiller and setting a better course. Making sense of all this is actually pretty simple, tho when your swimming in the pool its difficult and nearly impossible to understand what its like to not be wet.

The irony of all this is....the BCA acts just like the pro players, look closely at the board of directors. It wasn't like that years ago.
 
staying positive

I wish to focus on his last paragraph and the POSITIVE tone! He leaves the door open to revisit the sport. So, in my opinion there is still hope! But, the infrastructure for success needs to be improved and a strong foundation is a start. In my opinion, a "International Billiard Federation" needs to be formed with everyone giving up a little control to get this done. The days of OPEN events would be a thing of the past in this federation and members only! Promoters are required to escrow to be included! While players give up their ability to enter business arrangements outside of the federation inside the industry! I truly believe it could eliminate the double booking issues and provide some security to promoters. I also envision a rules committee, code of conduct and a enforcement arm. No fighting, No talking at the table, Must be seated when not at table, Dress Code & Etc. Reread his last paragraph, I quoted it below!

"My eyes will remain open. My ears will wait to hear the sounds of a game united in the pursuit of a common goal. My passion is not gone but reason demands a long pause and a wait until the leaders of the game decide to lead and the players begin to understand who should be followed and who should be ignored. I unfortunately doubt that I will be receiving any positive news."

I would like to see more POSITIVE post on this topic and less woe is me. Its starting to ruin my spirits!

Kd
 
JB Cases said:
..... it would be nice in my lifetime to see pool and its players be well known and well regarded among the general public. At the very least and well before that I think that pool in the USA can become consistent and stable with a pro tour and a broad base to support it......That's doable right now with the resources we have with no need to look outside the industry.
Click to expand...

John...always the eternal optimist aren't you ?..Your unrealistic outlook on pool, is mind boggling for someone with your inside knowledge of the game !..In fact, you have a better chance of beating Lou at your One Pocket match, than any of your 'pipe dreams' about pool, EVER becoming a reality ! :rolleyes:

Sorry, but I make the odds of either one happening, (in your lifetime) at about 750,000 to 1 !!!...Now if Lou were to give you, like 5 games on the wire, racing to 7, I would have to make a SLIGHT adjustment on the odds ! ;)..
 

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Ken_4fun said:
Before you throw rocks CJ...

Did you go to Tunica and support it each year....or just pout in Dallas?

IMO, Diamond and Greg Sullivan puts on an event and the the freakin fans and pool players dont show up? After all he has done?

For all you folks talking about what SOMEONE ELSE should have done, what have YOU done?

Ken
Click to expand...

i am not taking up for cj... he is a grown man.

he was there this past year. i was there the past 2 years. strange i never saw you there either time so what did you do to support it ?

some of the men pros were caught between a rock and a hard place with the bonus ball thing and that has ben beat to death.


as far as fans go most posters on here as i recall chose to save their money for dcc instead of going to the southern classic. as for the local fan base ... its kinda hard to go to an event that you are not aware of happening.

ken you lived in memphis and are well aware of how much advertising the casinos do around here. i am talking about radio, tv, commercial appeal, memphis flyer and a shit load of billboards around town.

i posted about it last year on here and a couple of posts in this thread . there was no advertising in this entire metro area of over 1 million people.
 
JB Cases said:
Yes, I think that as a sport this one deserves to be held in the same regard as other professional sports like tennis and golf and boxing, basically any individual competitive sport.

However I don't think that professionals deserve money JUST for being professionals. I think that if there is a fan base to support the professional game then the professionals should be able to make a very good living entertaining us.
Click to expand...

Pool is not even on the same planet as Golf and tennis skill or otherwise and Boxing is another animal by its self how far away do you think pool is from putting 100k in the stands with 10k front row seats

Pool getting in the same league as Bowling at this point seems like a stretch but I think it can be done with the right marketing ,, of course they need a tour before any of these pipe dreams can happen

1
 
Billiard Congress of America (BCA) is a governing body for cue sports in North America (here defined as the United States and Canada exclusively), the regional member organization of the World Pool-Billiard Association (WPA).
[1] It was established under this name in 1948
[2] as a non-profit trade organization
[3] in order to promote the sport and organize its players via tournaments at various levels.

JoeyA
 
Neil said:
Sure seems like a number of people are missing the whole point of Badi's statements. It's not about the low fan turnout, it's about the respect , or rather lack of respect, by the pro players. In this case, it is ALL on the players.

Strange how some want to twist what Badi said into an infomercial for their own agenda on promoting. He was, and is not about promoting, he is about giving to a passion of his. All he asked in return was respect for him and for the game. The pros couldn't even give that little bit in exchange for having somewhere to play and make some $$.

If the pros had bothered to act professional even a little bit, Badi THEN would have invested big $$ into actually making a tour, or at least several more big events. Which, at that point, I'm sure he has enough savy to promote it properly. His event was more of a "test the waters" thing, and the pros once again blew it for themselves.
Click to expand...

I don't get it...if HE was in charge of everything....how is he blameless for his own failure?


He could have said AHEAD of time, "If this tournament goes off like this (insert however he wants it to go), I am going to invest big $$ into actually making a tour, or at least several more big events".


If his tournament was a "test the waters" thing, then he blew it by keeping his intentions secret.

Even now, who knows exactly what he wanted??

Hell he had a full field of women and 2/3rds full for the men.



Its a hard thing in life to blame yourself.



Go to his Ultimate 10 ball website, he took all info down from it except his last statement,

http://www.ultimate10ball.com/2014/

he couldn't even leave all the results up...like he's a big baby, "its my ball and I'm going home".
 
stevelomako said:
I don't get it...if HE was in charge of everything....how is he blameless for his own failure?


He could have said AHEAD of time, "If this tournament goes off like this (insert however he wants it to go), I am going to invest big $$ into actually making a tour, or at least several more big events".


If his tournament was a "test the waters" thing, then he blew it by keeping his intentions secret.

Even now, who knows exactly what he wanted??

Hell he had a full field of women and 2/3rds full for the men.



Its a hard thing in life to blame yourself.



Go to his Ultimate 10 ball website, he took all info down from it except his last statement,

http://www.ultimate10ball.com/2014/

he couldn't even leave all the results up...like he's a big baby, "its my ball and I'm going home".
Click to expand...

Still trying hard to fathom how you could possibly be naive enough to make that last statement.????????????
 
JoeyA said:
Billiard Congress of America (BCA) is a governing body for cue sports in North America (here defined as the United States and Canada exclusively), the regional member organization of the World Pool-Billiard Association (WPA).
[1] It was established under this name in 1948
[2] as a non-profit trade organization
[3] in order to promote the sport and organize its players via tournaments at various levels.

JoeyA
Click to expand...
Read their charter.

They represent manufacturers, pool room owners and the like. Players and fans are classified as eligible to join but as non voting members. In other words, not important to the organization.

Google their web site. They are not there for the end user, it is a trade organization.

Much like the home builders association, it is not there to support home buyers... No difference.
 
SJDinPHX said:
John...always the eternal optimist aren't you ?..Your unrealistic outlook on pool, is mind boggling for someone with your inside knowledge of the game !..In fact, you have a better chance of beating Lou at your One Pocket match, than any of your 'pipe dreams' about pool, EVER becoming a reality ! :rolleyes:

Sorry, but I make the odds of either one happening, (in your lifetime) at about 750,000 to 1 !!!...Now if Lou were to give you, like 5 games on the wire, racing to 7, I would have to make a SLIGHT adjustment on the odds ! ;)..
Click to expand...

You can bet more. $1000 on the match and $200 a game seems to be very low for a big time player like yourself. You're not barred. Ship the dough to Mrs. Lou, she can stack the set stake on the light and hand the per game bullets over for each game I win.

As for my statements, well, if poker with people sitting on their asses flipping cards can be something people watch then there is no reason pool can't be as well.

Larry Hubbart and Terry Bell became millionaires off the APA. Those millions came from one place - small amounts of money taken from hundreds of thousands of players and millions of matches.
 
stevelomako said:
I don't get it...if HE was in charge of everything....how is he blameless for his own failure?


He could have said AHEAD of time, "If this tournament goes off like this (insert however he wants it to go), I am going to invest big $$ into actually making a tour, or at least several more big events".


If his tournament was a "test the waters" thing, then he blew it by keeping his intentions secret.

Even now, who knows exactly what he wanted??

Hell he had a full field of women and 2/3rds full for the men.



Its a hard thing in life to blame yourself.



Go to his Ultimate 10 ball website, he took all info down from it except his last statement,

http://www.ultimate10ball.com/2014/

he couldn't even leave all the results up...like he's a big baby, "its my ball and I'm going home".
Click to expand...

Yes, because giving the players an ultimatum would have earned him their respect.
 
JB Cases said:
You grow the sport - or any activity - by growing the number of participants and keeping them.

Of course regular league players often don't know about one pocket. But the very fact that Jane Doe is playing POOL instead of on bowling league means that there are more folks beside her doing the same thing. And out of a larger amount of people playing comes more people who get into pool in a deeper way who do learn what one pocket is and want to play it.

In other words a larger pie feeds more people. And with a larger stable base pool can find money to produce shows that make pool interesting. Snooker is freaking BORING but the production of it has made it interesting. In China there are at least three magazines that are REAL glossy heavy books devoted mainly to snooker players with in-depth interviews and tons of content. They actually have ads for giant brand names in them.

In England the exploits of Snooker stars are tabloid material. Ok that's how it developed and Snooker had the backing of the BBC early as a test bed for all their broadcasting innovations. But it shows that a boring game can be made interesting for the non-playing public. People will care for and cheer for players they get to know.

Ok it's 2013 in America and the question is whether there is any room in the average American's mind to spend on pool and pool players? I don't know. But I do know that when I see adults on Facebook showing pictures of a backpack with the images of the Duck Dynasty characters on it and saying how much they want one then I have to believe that the beautiful game of pool can be packaged and sold to these people because we certainly have some characters that are more interesting than the Duck Dynasty guys.

But if no one actually writes the script and no one hits the road to sell it then it's a certainty that all we will have is continued hand-wringing and lamenting how bad off pool is. And you're right, in some senses pool is not broken, there are still rooms, there are still tournaments, there is still some action. Pool addicts will always be around.

The game itself in all the various forms will never die. Will it ever reach the heights it deserves? Maybe not, probably not, but it would be nice in my lifetime to see pool and its players be well known and well regarded among the general public. At the very least and well before that I think that pool in the USA can become consistent and stable with a pro tour and a broad base to support it.

That's doable right now with the resources we have with no need to look outside the industry.

Instead of sitting on the sidelines I call for Mark and Badi and Greg and likeminded people to get together and be the change they want to see rather than hoping others will see the errors of their ways and come to the table.
Click to expand...

Snooker isn't boring. Unlike pool, snooker has SUBSTANCE.
 
501c3

Public Requests and Inspections


Under IRS disclosure laws, a tax-exempt organization must provide copies of the required documents to any person who makes a request, either immediately for in-person requests or within 30 days of receipt of a written request. The laws allow nonprofits to charge reasonable fees for copying and postage. Nonprofits also must honor requests from the public to inspect and make copies of their annual tax returns and applications for exemption. Public inspections must be permitted during regular business hours at the organization’s principal place of business. Disclosure laws also require the IRS to provide copies of tax forms and exemption applications to members of the public who submit written requests to the agency.
 
joelpope said:
Read their charter.

They represent manufacturers, pool room owners and the like. Players and fans are classified as eligible to join but as non voting members. In other words, not important to the organization.

Google their web site. They are not there for the end user, it is a trade organization.

Much like the home builders association, it is not there to support home buyers... No difference.
Click to expand...

Then perhaps the BCA should consider renouncing their membership in the World Pool Association and/or perhaps giving up their pledge "to promote the sport and organize its players via tournaments at various levels."

JoeyA
 
How the Industry covered the event

Here's how the Industry covered the event:

I believe THIS is very telling as to how the "Industry" is divided right now. Everyone ONLY covers events that advertise with them or are friendly to their clique.

BIGGEST event on American Soil in several decades:

Here is how the Industry covered the event


AZBilliards

http://www.azbilliards.com/tours_an...ball-championship-2013-mens-division/stories/

http://www.azbilliards.com/news/stories/10196-big-names-will-help-ultimate-10-ball-support-the-bef/

Inside Pool Magazine - March 2013

http://www.insidepoolmag.com/201303/billiard-news/ultimate-ten-ball-championships-announced.html

Billiard Digest

buried on their calendar

http://www.billiardsdigest.com/calendar/

Pool & Billiard Magazine

No coverage found

Kazoom -

http://www.kozoom.com/en/pool-billi...es-added-money-in-name-of-billiard-unity.html

NYC Grind

http://www.nycgrind.com/the-latest/3rd-edition-ultimate-10-ball-championships-set-tunica-june-17-20/

Stroke Magazine

No coverage found
 
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