here is a video that a great player Abram Diaz did to discuss on the of the biggest issues in artistic pool at the moment :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHDirsoLM3M
Artistic Pool Discussion-Skills or Circus ???
- Thread starter EAGLETRICKSHOTS
- Start date
Trick shots
I do not know Mr. Diaz, but I totally agree.
I know most of the great trick shot artists.
Many have quit because of these prop and circus shots.
If the trend continues, the sport is doomed.
I had discussed this with Matt Braun a few years ago (he produces trick shots for tv) - and his goals are different than those of the WPA.
He did not agree with my assessment, and in fact had one of 'circus shot' guys determining his shots for the tv programming.
We all know who Mr. Diaz is talking about and I think it is about time someone from the industry spoke up.
There is a reason that Mike Massey, Tom Rossman, Stefano Pelinga, and several others have quit in recent years. These are the people who got the sport going and to have it ruined by a small influential group of people is criminal.
Thank you for posting this YouTube link.
Mark Griffin
I do not know Mr. Diaz, but I totally agree.
I know most of the great trick shot artists.
Many have quit because of these prop and circus shots.
If the trend continues, the sport is doomed.
I had discussed this with Matt Braun a few years ago (he produces trick shots for tv) - and his goals are different than those of the WPA.
He did not agree with my assessment, and in fact had one of 'circus shot' guys determining his shots for the tv programming.
We all know who Mr. Diaz is talking about and I think it is about time someone from the industry spoke up.
There is a reason that Mike Massey, Tom Rossman, Stefano Pelinga, and several others have quit in recent years. These are the people who got the sport going and to have it ruined by a small influential group of people is criminal.
Thank you for posting this YouTube link.
Mark Griffin
I think it started as a circus myself. The more power to the guy that can pull in the bucks and fans though.... I aint gonna watch no matter what is happening.
As far as I am concerned, the trick shot needs to be limited to using a single stick, making contact with a single ball by the forward movement of said stick, and then resulting in the pocketing of one or more balls. leaving the CB on the table.
Props are OK--simply because it is a circus.
However, it should remain pool (i.e. pocket billiards.)
Props are OK--simply because it is a circus.
However, it should remain pool (i.e. pocket billiards.)
I always thought it would be better without the props.
They have been doing the railroad shot for 120 years and the chopsticks, coin tubes, paper sacks.
Only shots that would happen in a game of pool would be what I would prefer.
They have been doing the railroad shot for 120 years and the chopsticks, coin tubes, paper sacks.
Only shots that would happen in a game of pool would be what I would prefer.
I have the same opinion.
IMHO Pool trick shots competitions and shows should compliment pool not look like they're being played at the final hole of a miniature golf course. Some props have always been ok but when the majority of shots use props the show or competition loses class and many people's interest. I've most admired the shots that were creative, ingenious whether difficult to execute or not but at least could be applied to skills in a real game. I'm sure there is a place for lots of prop shots strung together but I think not in a competition. It shouldn't be whom ever has the best stuffed animal or biggest domino collection wins! I just have a problem with watching that. Please help bring back actual trick shot shooting!
Much appreciation to people like our own new school trick shot artists Eagletrickshots and Venom for keeping it interesting and entertaining. It's really sad when guys like were mentioned in Mr. Griffins post leave what they love doing prematurely.
Much appreciation to people like our own new school trick shot artists Eagletrickshots and Venom for keeping it interesting and entertaining. It's really sad when guys like were mentioned in Mr. Griffins post leave what they love doing prematurely.
I coudn't agree with this more. One thing that he didn't point out, that, if you don't follow artistic pool, is that there are clearly two different sets of trick shot competitions. You've got the ones that are like what you see on tv, that's really the "circus" stuff that he is referring to.
The world championship stuff on the other hand consists of 8 groups of shots (trick/fancy, prop/novlety, draw, follow, bank/kick, stroke, jump and masse). Of those only the prop/novelty are "circus-y".
I played in Tom's Artistic cup (a pro-am event) the first 3 years (missed the last two for various reasons) and came in 13th, 5th and 7th. The nice thing about the event is that if you can play pool at a decent level, and dedicate the time to learning the shot program (for the first time around I estimate I spent about 80-120 hours practicing the shots, somewhat less the next two years since they don't change). Granted the field wasn't that deep, it was a nice validation to finish above some more well known trick shot players, and coming in behind people like Massey, Segal, Gray, etc at a pro-am event is nothing to be upset over.
As Abram points out the circus type stuff is just silly. Plus there's no way I could spend so little time practicing it and compete at all. If you can play pool you should be able to, with not too much training learn any "artistic" pool shot. But the crazy stuff, some of it you simply can't do depending on how you are built, and again a lot of those shots are thought up just to have a shot you know your opponent will not be able to do. Plus as Abram mentioned...although a lot of serious pool players consider trick shots a novelty and a waste of time, playing jump, masse's, big draw/follow, stroke shots has certainly had an effect on my game - this stuff does come up and knowing how to properly aim certain rare shots can make a difference here and there, plus some of the things you learn about just how much you can throw balls comes up too.
I like the competition, but unless I was going to quit my job and do this full time there's no way in the world you could ever compete with the people that do that. And it just isn't pool anymore at that point.
Of course the problem, as it often is, is that the more "real" artistic pool events don't lend themselves very well to TV...
I agree that the crazy circus stuff is killing the sport - but then again pool overall is in a decline too. Tom's been really good about throwing money at his Artistic Cup events, but he's had to scale that back over the years - and even though he's throwing what is essentially an "easy money" event, it still hasn't attracted a growing field...field sizes have remained about the same over the years. You'd think that in an event where a large percentage of the field is going to at least make their entry fee back...you'd get more local entrants.
The world championship stuff on the other hand consists of 8 groups of shots (trick/fancy, prop/novlety, draw, follow, bank/kick, stroke, jump and masse). Of those only the prop/novelty are "circus-y".
I played in Tom's Artistic cup (a pro-am event) the first 3 years (missed the last two for various reasons) and came in 13th, 5th and 7th. The nice thing about the event is that if you can play pool at a decent level, and dedicate the time to learning the shot program (for the first time around I estimate I spent about 80-120 hours practicing the shots, somewhat less the next two years since they don't change). Granted the field wasn't that deep, it was a nice validation to finish above some more well known trick shot players, and coming in behind people like Massey, Segal, Gray, etc at a pro-am event is nothing to be upset over.
As Abram points out the circus type stuff is just silly. Plus there's no way I could spend so little time practicing it and compete at all. If you can play pool you should be able to, with not too much training learn any "artistic" pool shot. But the crazy stuff, some of it you simply can't do depending on how you are built, and again a lot of those shots are thought up just to have a shot you know your opponent will not be able to do. Plus as Abram mentioned...although a lot of serious pool players consider trick shots a novelty and a waste of time, playing jump, masse's, big draw/follow, stroke shots has certainly had an effect on my game - this stuff does come up and knowing how to properly aim certain rare shots can make a difference here and there, plus some of the things you learn about just how much you can throw balls comes up too.
I like the competition, but unless I was going to quit my job and do this full time there's no way in the world you could ever compete with the people that do that. And it just isn't pool anymore at that point.
Of course the problem, as it often is, is that the more "real" artistic pool events don't lend themselves very well to TV...
I agree that the crazy circus stuff is killing the sport - but then again pool overall is in a decline too. Tom's been really good about throwing money at his Artistic Cup events, but he's had to scale that back over the years - and even though he's throwing what is essentially an "easy money" event, it still hasn't attracted a growing field...field sizes have remained about the same over the years. You'd think that in an event where a large percentage of the field is going to at least make their entry fee back...you'd get more local entrants.
OK I must admit that I'm a bit of a purist. The whole trick shot thing has zero appeal for me. Add outside equipment, flaming hoops and wonder dogs and I would rather watch reruns of Love Boat. Any shot that would not be legal or possibly come up in a game situation has no place in my heart.
Though illegal and will never come up I find these incredibly cool.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUtd7YisQ-c
Slamming 14 balls into a pocket before 15th slow rolls it's self into the pocket has never come up in 30 years of play.
Nick
Though illegal and will never come up I find these incredibly cool.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUtd7YisQ-c
Slamming 14 balls into a pocket before 15th slow rolls it's self into the pocket has never come up in 30 years of play.
Nick