As you get better should you use a harder tip?
- Thread starter ktrepal85
- Start date
I would say the reason your cue moves on hard shots is that your stroke changes as you add power, not because of the tip. It's pretty common knowledge that as a player tries to add more power to the shot, their arm moves more and even jerks, causing the tip to move.
I play with a softer tip, but played for a while with a hard tip on a house cue, from the hour or so I banged balls around with it, it seemed I was pocketing balls with more accuracy but was not moving the cueball around as well. Still getting good position, just using less spin, which is probably good, but just not my game. I would rather use a bit of spin than use more force and more center ball to get to the same place.
As most people have mentioned, it isn't the tip. I have always played with fairly hard tips, but these days I use milk duds. They still are fairly hard, put feel more like a soft tip. Other than feedback to my hand, I notice little difference between hard and soft tips. Only benefit of the harder tip is it doesn't lose its shape much at all. The downside is they tend to glaze over more, requiring more maintenance.
Milk duds have pretty much solved both problems, hold shape well, but don't tend to glaze over.
Milk duds have pretty much solved both problems, hold shape well, but don't tend to glaze over.
This topic has been discussed many times, but I guess it is an important one, so here goes: I do not like soft tips. I want feedback to my hand and some sound as well to go by. When I use soft tips they tend to mute the sound and feedback a bit. On the other hand hard tips get a bit too loud and hard for me, and they require very careful chalking. Therefore I use medium tips, because it's a compromise between the two. A lot of very good players around here use the softest tips available, so skill has got little to do with it, I think. It's more or less a matter of taste.
It looks cool.
And the occasional person will come up to you and say, "Dude, your tip is starting to come off", but then you tell them "No, it's okay, it's just a Kamui clear", and then you can both share a friendly giggle. That's what it's for.
I believe the function of the clear layer of plastic was to prevent the glue from soaking up into the tip, thus possibly preventing the glue from sticking and also getting the tip hard from the soaked up glue. I CALL BS!
1. The only reason why a tip would soak up glue, would be the repairman using thin ca glue. If you use the proper gel glue, it will never happen. Also there is a myth that if you press the tip down hard, you will squeeze the glue out, preventing a bond. This is also nonsense. Prepare the surfaces of the tip and ferrule by sanding. Do not apply glue that is allowed to dry. This is bullshit that will make the glue bond weaker. After sanding apply gel glue to ferrule and push the tip down hard with your thumb. Hold it while watching a movie or something. It should be stuck on after only 5 minutes, but I like to hold it longer just in case. I've NEVER had a tip come loose, except once when I accidentally used old glue. Use fresh gel CA glue, it will never happen.
2. The myth about the glue "wicking" up through the layers is bullshit. The tip will glaze and harden because of the pounding it receives from the impacts and the polishing by the chalk, not by wicking glue. Again, use the gel CA not the thin ones. I believe this myth might have arisen while pressing the tip on with the shaft in the lathe, having glue pressed out from the ferrule/tip connection and spilling on the sides of the tip. If you hold the cue upright while pressing, this will never happen. Also, don't use the thin CA. Why would you, when the gel is so much better?
Even if it were true, remember that a layered tip has layers of hardned glue between the layers of leather that would form a barrier against any glue from the ferrule. Also remember that this is leather, not toilet paper.
3. The clear layer makes it harder to trim the tip.
4. The clear layer does IMHO not look "cool". This is only an opinion.
5. The clear layer Kamuis are ridiculously overpriced, again IMHO:
1. The only reason why a tip would soak up glue, would be the repairman using thin ca glue. If you use the proper gel glue, it will never happen. Also there is a myth that if you press the tip down hard, you will squeeze the glue out, preventing a bond. This is also nonsense. Prepare the surfaces of the tip and ferrule by sanding. Do not apply glue that is allowed to dry. This is bullshit that will make the glue bond weaker. After sanding apply gel glue to ferrule and push the tip down hard with your thumb. Hold it while watching a movie or something. It should be stuck on after only 5 minutes, but I like to hold it longer just in case. I've NEVER had a tip come loose, except once when I accidentally used old glue. Use fresh gel CA glue, it will never happen.
2. The myth about the glue "wicking" up through the layers is bullshit. The tip will glaze and harden because of the pounding it receives from the impacts and the polishing by the chalk, not by wicking glue. Again, use the gel CA not the thin ones. I believe this myth might have arisen while pressing the tip on with the shaft in the lathe, having glue pressed out from the ferrule/tip connection and spilling on the sides of the tip. If you hold the cue upright while pressing, this will never happen. Also, don't use the thin CA. Why would you, when the gel is so much better?
Even if it were true, remember that a layered tip has layers of hardned glue between the layers of leather that would form a barrier against any glue from the ferrule. Also remember that this is leather, not toilet paper.
3. The clear layer makes it harder to trim the tip.
4. The clear layer does IMHO not look "cool". This is only an opinion.
5. The clear layer Kamuis are ridiculously overpriced, again IMHO:
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That's funny... My aunt and I were playing a local tournament and she was playing a guy she had worked with in the past. That didn't stop him from waiting until she beat him to tell her that her tip was coming unscrewed. Yep, he thought she was using a screw on tip and she had to tell him it was a clear.
:yikes:
It may be a myth for some, but in reality it is easier to
put spin on a cue ball with the right soft tip. Also, what type
of glue is used makes a difference.
And yes, even chalk makes a difference.
This subject is not debatable, but is fact.
:thumbup:
.
Careful tests have shown that isn't true. What actual evidence do you have otherwise?
How do you think the glue could possibly matter?
Cue tips don't slip if chalked properly with just about any kind of chalk. If they don't slip, then they all produce the same spin for the same offset.
True. So why do you doubt the well-established facts?
pj
chgo
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If it's a "click", it could be the tip isn't glued down properly all the way around. If it pops off, you'll know that's what it was.
On the other hand, harder tips do make more sound even when glued on well.
But it could also be the sound your shaft makes with a hard tip.
Glad I was able to sort that out for you... :wink:
pj
chgo
Earl has told me directly that he ONLY uses Elk Masters, and only ever will. He says he can't get the insane spin he gets with other tips. I mean, if he says he can't, I am inclined to believe him. I think he has a pretty damn solid grasp of what he can do with a pool cue and cue ball. However, the *reasons* why he believes as he does may not be grounded in the physics of the tip, but in the metaphysics of Earl's mind lol. Tough to say for sure. I totally understand the physics and the idea that a hard tip may possibly produce more action on the cue ball. However, I can't help but feel like a softer tip can create a higher ratio of rotational to translational energy. Meaning, it may be the case that a softer tip can make the ball spin more *relative* to its forward velocity. Even though a hard tip might make more spin overall at a given speed. IDK...this make sense to anyone?
KMRUNOUT
EDIT: PJ, can you help me logic my way through this particular point?
KMRUNOUT
EDIT: PJ, can you help me logic my way through this particular point?
Another variable to Earls tip of choice is that he, along with many other oldschool players have played with their trusted elks for several decades. They have gotten so used to them that its their second nature to play with them, and what would be the point of trying to change that? Earl is a special case in many ways, if he feels something is good for him, he will use that despite the response of others. Like his armweights. And gloves. Aaaand earmuffs. Maybe his trusty elkmasters fall in the same category as well?
Im used to playing with layered tips, but still see no harm done to anyone if some want to play with elks or whatever they feel comfortable playing with
Im used to playing with layered tips, but still see no harm done to anyone if some want to play with elks or whatever they feel comfortable playing with
Another variable to Earls tip of choice is that he, along with many other oldschool players have played with their trusted elks for several decades. They have gotten so used to them that its their second nature to play with them, and what would be the point of trying to change that? Earl is a special case in many ways, if he feels something is good for him, he will use that despite the response of others. Like his armweights. And gloves. Aaaand earmuffs. Maybe his trusty elkmasters fall in the same category as well?
Im used to playing with layered tips, but still see no harm done to anyone if some want to play with elks or whatever they feel comfortable playing with
Well said!
KMRUNOUT
:thumbup:
And there you go. I said there is no debate about this subject.
Finally experience is king.
:clapping:
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I'm afraid mere logic is no match for Earl's fantasies, but I might be able to help with reality:
Physics says a hard tip can deliver more power, but that means more spin and speed in the same proportions - in other words, no increase in spin-to-speed ratio (what we call "action").
Nope. That's exactly what tip hardness does not affect. Hitting the CB on the same spot with a hard or soft tip produces the same spin-to-speed ratio - the harder tip is simply like hitting the shot a little harder with the softer tip.
pj
chgo