Ask The Cuemaker Topic

[blud]

Points

well now that we havve that question worked on heres another.....

whats the real advantage or disadvantage in the three main point.....1-pantographed,2-short plice v-points,3- full splice v-point(burton spain type),butterfly.....i as a aspiring and lnowledgeable beginner can see the flaws in some but not in others.....help us out blu......maybe i am asking things that are above most beginners heads....or maybe im not the beginner i think i am......i can keep em coming all day......juston

Juston,

There is no differance in Mr. Spains point and the short ones you speak of. His were made one side at a time, and cut from a square block, and then turn cut round and tapered....... This worked very well for him, and Joel is doing the same thing. [It aint broke] The butter-fly is stacked woods or veneers at an angle. Not very strong as i said before.

I feel that [as I said eariler] that the true vee points are best and strongest. More glueing area than panagraph points. A full splice would be like one of my pete's. Maple going in to ebony or whatever wood you choose.[ finger splice if you will].....
blud

 

[blud]

wooble

i have a nice mottey cue, or should say i had a nice mottey cue. heres my story , sent the cue to be refinished,[nothing major wrong just a few dings] came back looking nice[very nice], i not used to rolling a cue on flat surface because all of my cues seem to be in good condition. BUT when resting the other day, one of my buddies asks if he can hit with it, of course the answer isyes, then he rolls on table, big wobble - shaft lifts right up - after just being refinished [rewrapped and finished] - any ideas? shafts alone are straight, butt alone raises. help. JMB AMY, minbneapolis, minn.[/QUOTE


Yes, a couple of things. Sounds like the butt is warped. But try these things first.
First take the shaft off the butt and see if there is paint build up on either face,[the shaft face and or the butt face].
If not check the roll of the shaft without the butt attached, and then check the butt witout the shaft. If these roll OK without each other, one or the other or maybe both need to be chucked up and re-faced at there faces. If you still have trouble, send it to me, so I can have a look see. And then see if it's fixable. It might need to be taken apart and put a new handle in it, and or reface the back of the front.. That would be my first guess. But, need to look at it first.

blud
830-232-5991 call for more help.........

 

[cuewhiz189]

thanks for that input blud.......when tapering a butt.....help us understand why some cue makers use a straight taper and some use a compound taper and last but not leats a parabolic(also a compound).......it butt construction what is the signifigance of it in relation to the builind and seasoning of the shaft......i feel everything you need to know about a cue maker can be found in the care taken in the building of a shaft.......talk to us blud.....juston

 

[classiccues]

First take the shaft off the butt and see if there is paint build up on either face,[the shaft face and or the butt face].
If not check the roll of the shaft without the butt attached, and then check the butt witout the shaft. If these roll OK without each other, one or the other or maybe both need to be chucked up and re-faced at there faces. If you still have trouble, send it to me, so I can have a look see. And then see if it's fixable. It might need to be taken apart and put a new handle in it, and or reface the back of the front.. That would be my first guess. But, need to look at it first.

blud
830-232-5991 call for more help.........

First I want to say that I hope everyone reading this and threads like this pertaining to cuemaking really appreciate the knowledge that Blud and the other cuemakers are sharing. In the RSB newsgroup there is also a lot of great cuemaking advice and the cuemakers that care enough to contribute to ANY electronic media should receive many kudos.
That being said the only thing I would like to add to the above advice is that if you get a warped cue, or a damaged cue you should try to go to the original cuemaker for the repair. This is absolutey nothing against Blud. So Blud, please do not take it as such. As a dealer, I will tell you in the secondary market that means alot. Of course this advice doesn't pertain to the departed cuemakers. I also know there are some cuemakers where there maybe a time issue. Believe me, when I try and sell a cue that has been worked on by "others", its always a sticking point of the sale. Again, I am speaking strictly from a brokers point of view.

Joe

 

[Joseph Cues]

thanks for that input blud.......when tapering a butt.....help us understand why some cue makers use a straight taper and some use a compound taper and last but not leats a parabolic(also a compound).......it butt construction what is the signifigance of it in relation to the builind and seasoning of the shaft......i feel everything you need to know about a cue maker can be found in the care taken in the building of a shaft.......talk to us blud.....juston

You're givin' away way too many secrets.
I can't wait for Blud's response to cuemakers who straight-taper their butts.
Blud, I have one very very big question.
I've come across a few buzzers. I've come across one with a 3-inch long phenolic sleeve between the forearm and the handle ( hidden by the wrap), it still rattled very badly. I think it's the 3/8 16 stud that came loose. Are some makers out there using the wrong epoxy for the stud?
Thanks.

 

[TATE]

I also know there are some cuemakers where there maybe a time issue. Believe me, when I try and sell a cue that has been worked on by "others", its always a sticking point of the sale. Again, I am speaking strictly from a brokers point of view.

Joe

I believe you are the same Classic Cues who bought and sold on E-Bay? If so I just want to say to you, Joe, that I bought a cue from you about a year ago. The one I received from you was used but could have easily passed for new unchalked. I wish everyone had your standards, customer service, and dealt with people as nicely and truthfully as you do.

Chris

 

[Michael Webb]

Michael,

I have heard of your expertise here - can you tell me what you charge for a lizard wrap?

Chris

Hello Sir:
I charge $250.00 for Lizard. I have a repair price list on my site.
Thank you

 

[Jon]

Hi Jon, I build a tip pressing jig that allows you to make the tip as hard as you want, It now sells for $50.0 plus a few bucks for shipping, instructions included. Let me know.
830-232-5991
blud

oh ok, i thought you meant some kind of radius cutter... I don't really think i need one, as i only use triangle (cut 'em down about halfway) or moori's, and neither needs to be pressed, i don't do much tip/shaft work for other people, and if i do, it's understood that it is triangle, moori or nothing lol, as a good friend of mine does most repairs around town, and the only people i service are the ones that don't really get along with him (you've got to get to know 'em lol). So thanks anyway, and if i ever change my mind, i'll let you know.

P.S. Which router bit is best for tapering, slot-cutter or straight, i'm currently using a 3-flute flush trim bit with the bearing removed, and it's cuts damn smooth, the lathe turns 240 rpms, and it takes about 4-5 minutes for a full 30" pass, any suggestions/changes???

Thanks

Jon

 

[blud]

tooling

oh ok, i thought you meant some kind of radius cutter... I don't really think i need one, as i only use triangle (cut 'em down about halfway) or moori's, and neither needs to be pressed, i don't do much tip/shaft work for other people, and if i do, it's understood that it is triangle, moori or nothing lol, as a good friend of mine does most repairs around town, and the only people i service are the ones that don't really get along with him (you've got to get to know 'em lol). So thanks anyway, and if i ever change my mind, i'll let you know.

P.S. Which router bit is best for tapering, slot-cutter or straight, i'm currently using a 3-flute flush trim bit with the bearing removed, and it's cuts damn smooth, the lathe turns 240 rpms, and it takes about 4-5 minutes for a full 30" pass, any suggestions/changes???

Thanks

Jon

Hi Jon, sorry for not replying sooner. Been out of town.
In my experiance, a 3 wing slot cutter worked best for me, when I was using a router. About 2" in dia. worked real good, it had about a 3/16" kerf. and at 30,000 rpm it cut pretty smooth. Just be sure your turning the butt, or shaft at about 100RPM, and your feed rate is about 6 minutes, per 30".......
hope this helps.
blud

 

[blud]

studs

You're givin' away way too many secrets.
I can't wait for Blud's response to cuemakers who straight-taper their butts.
Blud, I have one very very big question.
I've come across a few buzzers. I've come across one with a 3-inch long phenolic sleeve between the forearm and the handle ( hidden by the wrap), it still rattled very badly. I think it's the 3/8 16 stud that came loose. Are some makers out there using the wrong epoxy for the stud?
Thanks.

Hi Joseph, I don't think it's a matter of using the wrong glues. I think it's the cuemakers not center drilling and then boring a hole and then taking the time to gring the internal threads with a threading tool.
Even if he taps the hole, instead of grind cutting the threads, the hole must be of the right size.
Sounds like the original drilled hole was to big for the taped threads. The glue should hold it all in place, but if it's to big of a hole to start with, it will strip the threads without him knowing it.
The 3/8X16 thread is very fine threads and one can strip the threads easily. I would never use that ["off the shelf"] all thread. Never.....I use the same internal thread as I use in my joint pin. After all, the joint of the cue is the weakest link, so therefore, it must be as good as possiable. If it's good enough for the temparary connection, it's darn sure good enough for the soild [forever] connection, underwraps.
The phenolic being that long is Bull SHIT. Sorry, only way to describde it.
I make mine much shorter. No need to add what's not needed.
Shaft tapers, long straight tapers are like they use in Europe. Slim and long [but not straight] will allow you to draw your ball easier.

My taper on the butt is straight. No need for an off set taper, in my opinion.
With a butt taper that changes directions, [ angles within the taper] also changes the vibration [feel] hit of the cue.. I believe in the hit to be transfered without, any given angles. This way the "hit" [or feel if you will] will be transfered to your hand with little or no distortion.[spelling].

hope this clears it up for you folks.
blud

 

[Joseph Cues]

Thanks Blud. YOu are correct in cuemakers not taking the time to grind the threads.
Most I've seen would just tap that hole. Much quicker and easier.

 

[mjantti]

Hi Jon, I build a tip pressing jig that allows you to make the tip as hard as you want, It now sells for $50.0 plus a few bucks for shipping, instructions included. Let me know.
830-232-5991
blud

Hey, Blud. Could you tell us a little bit more about that tip jig thingy ? Does it work with both regular and laminated tips ?

 

[Jon]

Hi Jon, sorry for not replying sooner. Been out of town.
In my experiance, a 3 wing slot cutter worked best for me, when I was using a router. About 2" in dia. worked real good, it had about a 3/16" kerf. and at 30,000 rpm it cut pretty smooth. Just be sure your turning the butt, or shaft at about 100RPM, and your feed rate is about 6 minutes, per 30".......
hope this helps.
blud

Thanks, I have ordered some 6 wing cutters (the same offered by Barringer Cues/Cue Components for 95 bucks, but i didn't pay anywhere near that much ...) that are 2" dia. And i'll also slow everything down a bit and see how it works for me... And also in my opinion, i think the compound butt taper is just asking for trouble down the road, i don't even know why i think that, but i just do lol, i don't see the need for it, i've hit with a few tapered that way, and i just didn't feel a big enough difference to change over to that method... so i'm with you on that one, and i also like to grind threads instead of tapping, unless when i have to (radial pin for one), but i'm going to make my own pin, a combo of a lot of different things, i'll let you know how it turns out...

Thanks

Jon

 

[blud]

no worry

First I want to say that I hope everyone reading this and threads like this pertaining to cuemaking really appreciate the knowledge that Blud and the other cuemakers are sharing. In the RSB newsgroup there is also a lot of great cuemaking advice and the cuemakers that care enough to contribute to ANY electronic media should receive many kudos.
That being said the only thing I would like to add to the above advice is that if you get a warped cue, or a damaged cue you should try to go to the original cuemaker for the repair. This is absolutey nothing against Blud. So Blud, please do not take it as such. As a dealer, I will tell you in the secondary market that means alot. Of course this advice doesn't pertain to the departed cuemakers. I also know there are some cuemakers where there maybe a time issue. Believe me, when I try and sell a cue that has been worked on by "others", its always a sticking point of the sale. Again, I am speaking strictly from a brokers point of view.

Joe

Hi Joe, don't worry about your honest comments. Not problem. I noticed that, you don't have the BLUD's cues listed at the bottom as some others are.
Never to late for a BLUD, Joe.
blud

 

[blud]

slot cutters

Thanks, I have ordered some 6 wing cutters (the same offered by Barringer Cues/Cue Components for 95 bucks, but i didn't pay anywhere near that much ...) that are 2" dia. And i'll also slow everything down a bit and see how it works for me... And also in my opinion, i think the compound butt taper is just asking for trouble down the road, i don't even know why i think that, but i just do lol, i don't see the need for it, i've hit with a few tapered that way, and i just didn't feel a big enough difference to change over to that method... so i'm with you on that one, and i also like to grind threads instead of tapping, unless when i have to (radial pin for one), but i'm going to make my own pin, a combo of a lot of different things, i'll let you know how it turns out...

Thanks

Jon

Hi Jon, I have tired 4 wing, 6 wing and even [ 10 wingers at 3" in dia.] , and I settled for the 3 wing cutters. I found with 4, 6 and or 10 wing cutters the finish is not as smooth as with the 3 wingers. The only reason for this is you wind up having tool push-off, because of the huge amount of "AIR" that the 4, 6 and 10, wingers cause.
I would try the 3's first if I were you. You can buy the Bocsh tooling for about $10.00 or less..Just do a little research and you will find them very reasonable...
blud

 

[blud]

jig

Hey, Blud. Could you tell us a little bit more about that tip jig thingy ? Does it work with both regular and laminated tips ?

Hi Mikka, my jig is 14mm in dia. It will allow you to press a standard tip and or a laminated one also. $50.00 plus shipping. Hell of a deal.
blud

 

[Jon]

Hi Jon, I have tired 4 wing, 6 wing and even [ 10 wingers at 3" in dia.] , and I settled for the 3 wing cutters. I found with 4, 6 and or 10 wing cutters the finish is not as smooth as with the 3 wingers. The only reason for this is you wind up having tool push-off, because of the huge amount of "AIR" that the 4, 6 and 10, wingers cause.
I would try the 3's first if I were you. You can buy the Bocsh tooling for about $10.00 or less..Just do a little research and you will find them very reasonable...
blud

Ok, lol, i would have never thought of that (too much air flow caused by extra slots/teeth.) By the way, the three flute flush trim bit (bearing removed) is already starting to show signs of getting dull, so i'll most likely stock up on some 3 wing slot cutters.

Take Care,

Jon

 

[b-jammin]

Hi Jon, I have tired 4 wing, 6 wing and even [ 10 wingers at 3" in dia.] , and I settled for the 3 wing cutters. I found with 4, 6 and or 10 wing cutters the finish is not as smooth as with the 3 wingers. The only reason for this is you wind up having tool push-off, because of the huge amount of "AIR" that the 4, 6 and 10, wingers cause.
I would try the 3's first if I were you. You can buy the Bocsh tooling for about $10.00 or less..Just do a little research and you will find them very reasonable...
blud

So Blud would you explain what you mean by tool push-off?

I definitely noticed a much smoother cut when I switched from 3 wing to a 6-wing cutter when tapering the butt. I buy my shafts pre tapered so I only cut the butt section so I would appreciate more understanding on this. Thanks, B-jammin

 

[blud]

[push-off

So Blud would you explain what you mean by tool push-off?

I definitely noticed a much smoother cut when I switched from 3 wing to a 6-wing cutter when tapering the butt. I buy my shafts pre tapered so I only cut the butt section so I would appreciate more understanding on this. Thanks, B-jammin

B- Jamming, The 6 tooth will produce a smooth cut for the butt. The butt is much stiffer at this stage. However you can do the same thing with the 3 wing cutter, if you just slow your feed rate down a bit, and don't take a big bite of wood.

Tool push off can be caused when the tool is dull or the feed rate is to fast, or in this case, the tool is developing push-off because it's creating a lot of wind on the side of the shaft. [Also taking to much wood off at one time].. You won't see so much of this when turn-cutting butts as compared to shafts. Shafts, being smaller in dia., will give easer.

The turning rate of the shaft[ RPM's] and the feed rate, [how fast the router is moving ]and also how the RPM's of the router, all come into to play here. I have seen the same router, same RPM's and feed rate with the same tool, and the cuts wil be a little differant. Can't explain that one. But, been there done that.
Too many teeth will cause tool-push-off. Too few will do the same thing. Just find a good feed rate for cutting shafts [about a 6 minute pass] and then a good turning rate [about 100 RPM's] and a RPM speed of around 26 to 30,000 RPM's for the router.

With my CNC saw/lathe, [it's got 4 heads] The 10" saw blades turn at 3,650 RPM's. The feed rate for the finish cut is 8 minutes, and the shafts are turning at 96 RPM's. The shafts look as if they had been run through a sander. Very smooth, but I still sand them just before the paint goes on. This works well for me. The normal hogging cut feed rate is about 4 minutes.......

If you continue having problems, try these steps I have out laid, or call me. [830-232-5991]

Just take your time when cutting butts, or shafts. The finish cut on either butts, and shafts, should be about .004 thousandts over the finished size. Now it's a little bit big and will allow you to clean up the rings and any cut marks left by the cutters. Now you just sand and prep the butt and or shafts for paint.
blud

 

[cuewhiz189]

hey fellas......i would say you would be amazed to see that cnc taper machine leonard has.....so wild but damn its perfect.....i have held many cue and shafts right after they come off of it and i promise they are almost smooth enogh to play with......its amazing.....a damn table saw of sorts on its side.......its worth the cost of a plane ticket just to see his shop.....ill bet there aint another cuemaker out there that can even touch some of the things he has.......i would not want to get into a contest of who could make more cues and not compromise qaulity.....cause he would come out on top 100 out of 100 times......unbelieveable ......ill bet there are engineers that cant do what he does with machinery and if they knew how they would change jobs,lol.......maybe one day when the cue worl isnt so sniey he might show some detailed pics of his machinery......i promise it will make your mouth water to see it and the you will shit all over yourself to see it in action.......juston coleman