Atlas Billiard Supplies fined $162,000 for illegal ivory export

As a avid salt water fisherman I can tell you horror stories.

Some of the commercial people are raping the ocean and I have to take my lawyer with me to go catch dinner because of the regulations. Watch some of the shows like Swords, life on the line or Big Shrimpin and look at the amount of dead bycatch that is thrown back. When the gulf spill had the shrimpers shut down the red snapper population exploded because the shrimpers were not killing the juveniles with their nets.





JCIN said:
Pretty obvious they knew they were sticking their hand in the cookie jar and trying not to get caught. Uncle Sugar came for his pound of flesh and now things will move right along I suspect.

I wonder what the total budget is for fish cops in this nation? I bet if we really knew and understood what is spent we would be a lot more pissed at that number than at a few of Dumbo's relatives ending up as inlays.
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classiccues said:
ivory-tusks-burning1.jpg


See this waste.. they could have sold it and took that money for BETTER anti-poaching measures and more rangers etc...

JV
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Boneheaded move.
Had they released those, the price for ivory might have crashed.
 
Ivory

JoeyInCali said:
Boneheaded move.
Had they released those, the price for ivory might have crashed.
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No, it would not have had any affect on the price of ivory, which goes up every time another elephant is killed. Selling the ivory pictured would have been feeding another potential black market source: confiscated ivory sold by government profiteers.

Donny L
PBIA/ACS Instructor
Gainesville, Fl
 
Dumbo's relatives?

JCIN said:
Pretty obvious they knew they were sticking their hand in the cookie jar and trying not to get caught. Uncle Sugar came for his pound of flesh and now things will move right along I suspect.

I wonder what the total budget is for fish cops in this nation? I bet if we really knew and understood what is spent we would be a lot more pissed at that number than at a few of Dumbo's relatives ending up as inlays.[/QUOTE

Dumbo, I believe, is a cartoon elephant. So I suppose his relatives would be Donald Duck and Mickey Mouse?
The ivory trade has led to the near extinction of elephants, not "a few...ending up as inlays".
Of course we realize the extreme strategic and economic importance of elephant ivory to the United States. And any good Christian, Jew or Muslim knows that only (certain groups of) humans have a right to life, so what's all the fuss about dumb animals?

Donny L
PBIA/ACS Instructor
Gainesville, Fl
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abs said:
What bothers me is that almost all the money just goes into goverment coffers to spend on whatever BS the goverment chooses. They won't put a dime of that fine revenue to actually saving any endangered species.
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Show me a single species that is under the purview of our government that grows Ivory!
 
Purview?

MitchAlsup said:
Show me a single species that is under the purview of our government that grows Ivory!
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??
Purview,
1 scope or range of a document, scheme, etc.
2 range of physical or mental vision

OK. I think I know what you mean...anything (anyone?) not under the "purview" of our government has no right to life! ?

Donny L
PBIA/ACS Instructor
Gainesville, FL
 
classiccues said:
ivory-tusks-burning1.jpg


See this waste.. they could have sold it and took that money for BETTER anti-poaching measures and more rangers etc...

JV
Click to expand...

I hope you where joking. Otherwise you just don't understand and I don't think you ever will. Please tell me you where joking. I think the fire is fitting. Why would one think it is ok to sell the tusks of protected yet murdered animals. All is does is propagate the desire for ivory.

I would like to think that when my son is my age(30 more years), that he will be able to see live elephants, not a small reminder of them, as in inlays or a joint. I was under he impression all ivory used by makers was pre-ban? Am I wrong?

Hell, we might as well take down all the trees too, houses need to made and asses need to be wiped. Let's kill all the sharks too, but only for their fins. How about koala wrap, I bet that is nice and soft.

-----WTF people, these are pool cues-----

I think my next wrap on my cue is going to be Stupid White Republican. There is no way anything else is softer in the belly.
 
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The human population is doing very terrible things to the planet we inhabit. The laws that protect things such as elephants and trees are extremely important, and should be strictly enforced. I do not understand how we evolved to be so egotistical and self-centered as to believe that we are the only truly important species on the planet.

I am guilty of owning a couple of cues with ivory in them, but I am hoping they are really pre ban pieces. I think I would honestly sell the cues if I were to find out, for sure, otherwise.

Braden
 
PDX said:
I hope you where joking. Otherwise you just don't understand and I don't think you ever will. Please tell me you where joking. I think the fire is fitting. Why would one think it is ok to sell the tusks of protected yet murdered animals. All is does is propagate the desire for ivory.

I would like to think that when my son is my age(30 more years), that he will be able to see live elephants, not a small reminder of them, as in inlays or a joint. I was under he impression all ivory used by makers was pre-ban? Am I wrong?

Hell, we might as well take down all the trees too, houses need to made and asses need to be wiped. Let's kill all the sharks too, but only for their fins. How about koala wrap, I bet that is nice and soft.

-----WTF people, these are pool cues-----

I think my next wrap on my cue is going to be Stupid White Republican. There is no way anything else is softer in the belly.
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Atlas was charged with multiple paper work violations. They were NOT charged with illegally obtaining and the trafficking of illegally obtained endangered species parts.

Wasn’t that pile of Ivory obtained from the culling of elephant herds to keep them from starving to death due to overpopulation? The endangered species laws prevent the forest services of the parent countries from selling those tusks even though it was legally culled. Those countries could use the money to help keep the forestry services alive to help prevent poaching.

I don’t own anything ivory and don’t plan on purchasing any. I would like to see laws written with common sense applied, not laws written to support people with pink hair and too many piercings.
 
Elephant overpopulation?

chevybob20 said:
Atlas was charged with multiple paper work violations. They were NOT charged with illegally obtaining and the trafficking of illegally obtained endangered species parts.

Wasn’t that pile of Ivory obtained from the culling of elephant herds to keep them from starving to death due to overpopulation? The endangered species laws prevent the forest services of the parent countries from selling those tusks even though it was legally culled. Those countries could use the money to help keep the forestry services alive to help prevent poaching.

I don’t own anything ivory and don’t plan on purchasing any. I would like to see laws written with common sense applied, not laws written to support people with pink hair and too many piercings.
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Elephants don't die from overpopulation. Elephants are being driven into smaller and smaller areas because they get in the way of bulldozers and tractors. How clever we are, huh? We reduce their territory to a fraction of what it was, claim they're overpopulated and create yet another bogus reason to kill them. Yes, it was "legal".

I'd really be interested in reading some of those "laws written to support people with pink hair and too many piercings". So you'll post where you read them, yes?

Donny L
PBIA/ACS Instructor
Gainesville, Fl
 
Donny Lutz said:
Elephants don't die from overpopulation. Elephants are being driven into smaller and smaller areas because they get in the way of bulldozers and tractors. How clever we are, huh? We reduce their territory to a fraction of what it was, claim they're overpopulated and create yet another bogus reason to kill them. Yes, it was "legal".

I'd really be interested in reading some of those "laws written to support people with pink hair and too many piercings". So you'll post where you read them, yes?

Donny L
PBIA/ACS Instructor
Gainesville, Fl
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So what do you suggest, start killing humans? I think that libs, Democrats and the like have got one thing right. That thing is the strong survive. We stupid humans have figured a way around that law. The weak aren't dying off and as a result are dragging down the human race. I have a program to help that out. If a person wants to save [insert wildlife type here] then they sign a list. But, when a child goes hungry or people die as a result, then take the first person on the list and shoot them. After a while the opposition to the human race will abate.

Maybe then the left will stop pushing the Nazi-like antihuman laws and start injecting common sense in the laws.
 
Wow! Nazi-like laws??!

chevybob20 said:
So what do you suggest, start killing humans? I think that libs, Democrats and the like have got one thing right. That thing is the strong survive. We stupid humans have figured a way around that law. The weak aren't dying off and as a result are dragging down the human race. I have a program to help that out. If a person wants to save [insert wildlife type here] then they sign a list. But, when a child goes hungry or people die as a result, then take the first person on the list and shoot them. After a while the opposition to the human race will abate.

Maybe then the left will stop pushing the Nazi-like antihuman laws and start injecting common sense in the laws.
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You are making a common mistake in your reasoning. Caring for non-human animals and caring for humans are not mutually exclusive. I might suggest that you do a little studying of this subject before making knee-jerk responses to any comments that challenge your personal values.

Caring for nature does not cause children to starve. It's the opposite that's true. It's our destruction of nature and horrible farming practices that cause human starvation. If you believe you're qualified to speak on this subject, I'd be glad to debate you any time. A really intelligent position on the environment, the future of the planet and our moral responsibility takes into account ALL the inhabitants of Earth, including but not only humans.

Using terms like "Nazi-like" is "the argument of last resort for those who have no valid position". It's also trivializing what the Nazis actually did to Jews and countless others. "The weak aren't dying off and as a result are dragging down the human race. I have a solution for that", interestingly, is exactly what Adolph Hitler said in 1933.

I'm reminded, sadly, of what I heard a college professor say a few years ago, and I paraphrase, "Nature is our enemy. We must conquer and exploit it to survive. Wilderness is land wasted, until humans do something with it." No, we would do much better by learning to cooperate with nature.

Donny L
PBIA/ACS Instructor
Gainesville, Fl
 
PDX said:
I hope you where joking. Otherwise you just don't understand and I don't think you ever will. Please tell me you where joking. I think the fire is fitting. Why would one think it is ok to sell the tusks of protected yet murdered animals. All is does is propagate the desire for ivory.

I would like to think that when my son is my age(30 more years), that he will be able to see live elephants, not a small reminder of them, as in inlays or a joint. I was under he impression all ivory used by makers was pre-ban? Am I wrong?

Hell, we might as well take down all the trees too, houses need to made and asses need to be wiped. Let's kill all the sharks too, but only for their fins. How about koala wrap, I bet that is nice and soft.

-----WTF people, these are pool cues-----

I think my next wrap on my cue is going to be Stupid White Republican. There is no way anything else is softer in the belly.
Click to expand...

No I am not joking. There were 50 tons of ivory or something like that. Do the math, they say the their system is broken. But not something better manpower, equipment couldn't fix. So sell the confiscated tusks and buy more anti-poaching stuff.

Our cops do it ALL the time with confiscated items from the drug busts. You don't see anyone telling the cops to waste a Mazarati by burning it do you? No, they sell it and upgrade their equipment. That is the RIGHT way to help solve the problem. Anyone that thinks that this burning did anything except waste a lot of saleable ivory thinks the tooth fairy is real.

The problems with liberals is they want people to "donate" money to the cause, well here is the truth, no one outside of the liberals care and they really just have big mouths and small wallets when it comes to walking the walk vs talking the talk. So it will be just more liberal whining with ZERO getting done about it.

JV
 
No one has the right or responsibility to tell me what my "moral responsibilities" are. If you think you do you are a liberal bigot of the first order. You are entitled to your opinions just as others are. Who declared you the sole owner of the truth?

Please save me from liberal, bigoted do gooders that burn witches at the stake while claiming to know what is best for everyone else!

Let Africans run Africa. Most American law is created to buy American votes.A lot of Americans are duped in feel good laws that serve no real purpose in Africa or America.
 
Donny Lutz said:
You are making a common mistake in your reasoning. Caring for non-human animals and caring for humans are not mutually exclusive. I might suggest that you do a little studying of this subject before making knee-jerk responses to any comments that challenge your personal values.

Caring for nature does not cause children to starve. It's the opposite that's true. It's our destruction of nature and horrible farming practices that cause human starvation. If you believe you're qualified to speak on this subject, I'd be glad to debate you any time. A really intelligent position on the environment, the future of the planet and our moral responsibility takes into account ALL the inhabitants of Earth, including but not only humans.

Using terms like "Nazi-like" is "the argument of last resort for those who have no valid position". It's also trivializing what the Nazis actually did to Jews and countless others. "The weak aren't dying off and as a result are dragging down the human race. I have a solution for that", interestingly, is exactly what Adolph Hitler said in 1933.

I'm reminded, sadly, of what I heard a college professor say a few years ago, and I paraphrase, "Nature is our enemy. We must conquer and exploit it to survive. Wilderness is land wasted, until humans do something with it." No, we would do much better by learning to cooperate with nature.

Donny L
PBIA/ACS Instructor
Gainesville, Fl
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Lol...this belongs in NPR. Interestingly enough, Adolf would be a poster child for the Democratic Party.

FWIW, I agree with you. Elephants are important. They're more important than a building which will house dozens of people. They're more important than plumbing which will carry fresh water to thousands of people. They're more important than farmland which will feed thousands of people. I'm with you. I don't care too much for those people either. Most of them don't even have shoes...let's just condemn them to death. You know, for the elephants.
 
They can't continue to steal money from people who are in jail...

derangedhermit said:
Nobody's in jail? Then the gov't isn't very serious about stopping this stuff. Ivory doodads are nice, but seeing live elephants is on a different scale.
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That's why the number one federal incarceration is tax fraud... Can't set a precedent of letting people get away with that. Others need to continue to make them more money...

Jaden
 
JV, I didn't realize maserati's where living animals at one point? I am not a liberal, actually quite conservative, but I do vote Dem. the world is not about money, it's not about exploting it for man's use. Wake up. Do you have children or grand children? Do you care about a future where your children will grow up knowing about animal that where around in their daddy's time but not their own?

Money is nothing more than a tool and if you think it is anything else, then I feel sorry for you.

Burning the tusks is the only way to keep illegally poached ivory off the market.

If their ever is a revolution in this country, I'm sure there will be some that fear the sound of a bullet just as much as an elephant.

I've enjoyed your posts and your website, but I don't agree with your outlook on animal on animal relationships. How do you feel about gorilla hand ashtrays?

Also curious, does your feelings toward animals stem from a strong religious upbringing?
 
Drew said:
Lol...this belongs in NPR. Interestingly enough, Adolf would be a poster child for the Democratic Party.

FWIW, I agree with you. Elephants are important. They're more important than a building which will house dozens of people. They're more important than plumbing which will carry fresh water to thousands of people. They're more important than farmland which will feed thousands of people. I'm with you. I don't care too much for those people either. Most of them don't even have shoes...let's just condemn them to death. You know, for the elephants.
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Hitler was a poster child for the Thule society. Do your homework.
 
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