Audio Surveillance in Pool Room, Stuart FL

ChipD

ChipD

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have just learned that a local pool room that I have frequented uses microphones in their surveillance system to eavesdrop on conversations. I have had several conversations that I had assumed were in private and now realize that they may have been listened to. There's no sign that I have ever seen that would notify it's patrons of this. I am asking the forum if they are aware of this as general practice, their thoughts, and what you'd all suggest. I can appreciate a business owner wanting to protect their asset, however I feel that this is over the top. Many of time, I have had a conversation with someone off to side which I assumed was private. It was not. I have had phone conversations which I have intentionally have moved away from everyone in the room for privacy which I never had. I find this very wrong and I am very interested in your thoughts. I also would love to hear from any lawyers out there on the legality of this without any notification. It will be fair to say that I will never go there again and will make it known locally. Info available on request.
 
I have seen signs in stores in Illinois notifying the customers that they are recording audio. I think it is illegal there without notification. I have no idea about Florida. How do you know about this pool room?
 
I have seen this over and over and over in many pool rooms and many states. I am not a lawyer but it is my understanding that there is no expectation of privacy in any public place according to the law.

IMO
Mj
 
Federal Code

United States Codes, Title 18, Section 2510 (2) states:?Oral communication means any ?oral communication? uttered by a person exhibiting an expectation that such communication is not subject to interception under circumstances justifying such expectation?.

By definition of this code section, a person does not have an expectation of privacy, nor can he or she expect that communication will not be intercepted or recorded, if there are public signs posted which state that the communication will be intercepted or monitored. So, if you want a room bugged, you must put up a large public sign that says that's what you are doing! Not likely to work as well as you had hoped, but have at it. This holds true for public places like stores and government buildings as well as private homes and property. The First Amendment of the Constitution provides that any conversation between individuals is private, unless otherwise notified.

In more basic terms, this means that any overhearing or recording of a conversation is illegal?unless both parties are aware that it is being done. (i.e. you overhear the person seated next to you at a restaurant as they are speaking and they can plainly see that you are present and within earshot.)

For businesses, in order to comply with the law, many companies notify all customers that a disclaimer stating, "AUDIO MONITORING ON THESE PREMISES." Such a disclaimer must be affixed, in plain view, to all areas where microphones are installed. This includes inside a private home or other non-public location where an unknowing third party may be.

Some state laws may vary for the federal statute and it is further suggested that you consult with your local attorney, and become fully aware of the local laws in this regard. Nonetheless, the Federal law still applies.
 
"One of the key conditions to prosecuting an action for invasion of privacy is whether or not the person has a "reasonable expectation of privacy." The courts across the country are finding with more and more frequency that no reasonable expectation of privacy exists with patent video surveillance or with hidden surveillance if the physical space surveyed is a public and open space".

FLORIDA
Fla. Stat. ch. 934.03: All parties must consent to the recording or the disclosure of the contents of any wire, oral or electronic communication in Florida. Recording or disclosing without the consent of all parties is a felony, unless the interception is a first offense committed without any illegal purpose, and not for commercial gain, or the communication is the radio portion of a cellular conversation. Such first offenses and the interception of cellular communications are misdemeanors. State v. News-Press Pub. Co., 338 So. 2d 1313 (1976), State v. Tsavaris, 394 So. 2d 418 (1981).

Under the statute, consent is not required for the taping of a non-electronic communication uttered by a person who does not have a reasonable expectation of privacy in that communication. See definition of "oral communication," Fla. Stat. ch. 934.02.


Re: Telephone Conversations:

Federal law allows recording of phone calls and other electronic communications with the consent of at least one party to the call. A majority of the states and territories have adopted wiretapping statutes based on the federal law, although most also have extended the law to cover in-person conversations. Thirty-eight states and the District of Columbia permit individuals to record conversations to which they are a party without informing the other parties that they are doing so. These laws are referred to as "one-party consent" statutes, and as long as you are a party to the conversation, it is legal for you to record it. (Nevada also has a one-party consent statute, but the state Supreme Court has interpreted it as an all-party rule.)

Twelve states require, under most circumstances, the consent of all parties to a conversation. Those jurisdictions are California, Connecticut, Florida, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania and Washington. Be aware that you will sometimes hear these referred to inaccurately as "two-party consent" laws. If there are more than two people involved in the conversation, all must consent to the taping.
 
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The original poster doesn't say anything about the pool room conversations being recorded, just eavesdropped.
 
MikeJanis said:
I have seen this over and over and over in many pool rooms and many states. I am not a lawyer but it is my understanding that there is no expectation of privacy in any public place according to the law.

IMO
Mj
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I've never heard of such a thing, this is a common practice? What is the purpose? I wouldn't go there if I knew about it.
 
I dont see a problem....... I mean how big of a secret to you have to hide in a poolroom... if it was that big a deal for somebody to hear it then either you shouldnt have been talking about it in PUBLIC or you shouldnt have been considering it in the first place.....

I guess you have to go outside to talk to somebody about that dimebag now....
 
I have no idea wether or not any recording was done. I would assume it was. I am not discussing illegal activities or any top secret national security issues. But I have discussed business deals over a couple beers and have had several conversations of various topics that I thought were private. This applies to every restaurant, bar, or any place people meet socially. There should be reasonable expectation of privacy and I think that legal or not, a business owner at minimum has the responsibility to make it's patrons aware they don't have any privacy. If I know that I'm being monitored on video with audio, then I can decide if I want to have everything I say monitored. I can only use a real word situation that happens every day. A couple walks into a car dealership to buy a car. After a couple of hours, the pick the car they'd like to buy, but before they go too far in the negotiations, the ask the sales person if they could be excused to discuss this alone. They walk over to a waiting area with no one around and discuss their intentions away from everyone. What if the dealership was doing the same thing and the salesperson and his manager were having popcorn while watching and listening to very word they said when they had an expected level of privacy. They have been violated and the dealership that gave them the privacy has some exposure if taken to task. If they knew that they were being monitored, no problem.
 
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Video Security - No problem. Video security systems are in place virtually everywhere.

Audio Security - Big problem. Private converations have long been protected in numerous court rulings. You want to record what someone is saying, you must inform them of your intent and get their permission to be recorded. I strongly suspect that "evesdropping" on converations would be held to the same standards. If you have the means to listen in, you can also record what is being said. Thus, the same standards would apply in this situation.

An example is a sales call on the phone when you agree to sign up for something. The sales person then informs you that the conversation will now be recorded, and you must agree to it.
 
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When I was 16 (1956) I had a 1950 Fire Engine Red convertible. My buddy and I would go out on double dates in it. Our first stop was almost always the drive in. I had installed a tape recorder under the dash. As soon as we got to the drive-in my buddy and I would go get popcorn or whatever, leaving the two girls alone in the car. Of course I would put the recorder on just before we left the car. Later on when the girls would go to the ladies room my buddy and I would play the conversation back. This way I knew right away if I should waste anymore time and money on the girl I was with. Johnnyt
 
Johnnyt said:
When I was 16 (1956) I had a 1950 Fire Engine Red convertible. My buddy and I would go out on double dates in it. Our first stop was almost always the drive in. I had installed a tape recorder under the dash. As soon as we got to the drive-in my buddy and I would go get popcorn or whatever, leaving the two girls alone in the car. Of course I would put the recorder on just before we left the car. Later on when the girls would go to the ladies room my buddy and I would play the conversation back. This way I knew right away if I should waste anymore time and money on the girl I was with. Johnnyt
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Why didn't I think of that?
 
Johnnyt said:
When I was 16 (1956) I had a 1950 Fire Engine Red convertible. My buddy and I would go out on double dates in it. Our first stop was almost always the drive in. I had installed a tape recorder under the dash. As soon as we got to the drive-in my buddy and I would go get popcorn or whatever, leaving the two girls alone in the car. Of course I would put the recorder on just before we left the car. Later on when the girls would go to the ladies room my buddy and I would play the conversation back. This way I knew right away if I should waste anymore time and money on the girl I was with. Johnnyt
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Once again, my less than devious nature has robbed me of an excellent opportunity in my youth. That is good stuff :D
 
I think the owner may have installed this to weed out a few folks that may have been dealing out of his room. I think he is just trying to protect his business.

We have seen this many times over the years at the Flamingo, some guy will hang around and "hook up" some of the locals, then he's hangin out all day, gets a phone call, goes outside and sits in his customers car in the back of the parking lot, then comes back in.

I could see from the room owners view how this could destroy his business,
maybe a rival dealer or gang discovers that someone is selling drugs on turf that they claim belongs to them and it results in a shooting or a fight that makes the local news, the room gets a bad rep and people stop going there and go to another room and a once thriving business is destroyed.

At the Flamingo we have other methods to deal with this type of situation.

This is just my 2 cents.

Or maybe the owners wife or girlfriend is a cocktail waitress there and he is spying on her cause he suspects she is bangin one of the customers.:D
 
ChipD said:
I have just learned that a local pool room that I have frequented uses microphones in their surveillance system to eavesdrop on conversations. I have had several conversations that I had assumed were in private and now realize that they may have been listened to. There's no sign that I have ever seen that would notify it's patrons of this. I am asking the forum if they are aware of this as general practice, their thoughts, and what you'd all suggest. I can appreciate a business owner wanting to protect their asset, however I feel that this is over the top. Many of time, I have had a conversation with someone off to side which I assumed was private. It was not. I have had phone conversations which I have intentionally have moved away from everyone in the room for privacy which I never had. I find this very wrong and I am very interested in your thoughts. I also would love to hear from any lawyers out there on the legality of this without any notification. It will be fair to say that I will never go there again and will make it known locally. Info available on request.
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So much for stealing something in that pool room.


Come on now, out those dirty-dogs. What's the name of the pool hall?

Maybe they will let me review the digital audio records to get a good line on some of their players.
JoeyA
 
smokeandapancak said:
I dont see a problem....... I mean how big of a secret to you have to hide in a poolroom... if it was that big a deal for somebody to hear it then either you shouldnt have been talking about it in PUBLIC or you shouldnt have been considering it in the first place.....

I guess you have to go outside to talk to somebody about that dimebag now....
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Where can you still get a bag for a dime??????????
 
Johnnyt said:
When I was 16 (1956) I had a 1950 Fire Engine Red convertible. My buddy and I would go out on double dates in it. Our first stop was almost always the drive in. I had installed a tape recorder under the dash. As soon as we got to the drive-in my buddy and I would go get popcorn or whatever, leaving the two girls alone in the car. Of course I would put the recorder on just before we left the car. Later on when the girls would go to the ladies room my buddy and I would play the conversation back. This way I knew right away if I should waste anymore time and money on the girl I was with. Johnnyt
Click to expand...


Several years ago around the time I was completing my 3rd Junior year at Georgia, I invested in a 1300 dollar security camera system for my bedroom. At the time I was a hot commodity in the party and club scene and was getting laid at a torrid pace (2-3 girls a week). I now have quite a collection of "amateur" films starring me with several co-stars. :D
 
corvette1340 said:
Several years ago around the time I was completing my 3rd Junior year at Georgia, I invested in a 1300 dollar security camera system for my bedroom. At the time I was a hot commodity in the party and club scene and was getting laid at a torrid pace (2-3 girls a week). I now have quite a collection of "amateur" films starring me with several co-stars. :D
Click to expand...

And the legend continues!

I want to see the cartoon for this one.
 
I'm sure the owner of the poolroom in question has already seen this thread or someone has told him about it, but if you still suspect it's going on there, here are a few things you can do.

Buy a cheap digital bug detector for about $125. It will tell you if the place is bugged. Or use a private investigator to check it out for about $300. If one is found call police and a good lawyer. Or you can buy and wear an anti audio bug scambler. There...I'm sure it's gone now. Johnnyt
 
MikeJanis said:
I have seen this over and over and over in many pool rooms and many states. I am not a lawyer but it is my understanding that there is no expectation of privacy in any public place according to the law.

IMO
Mj
Click to expand...
im not 100 % sure of the laws on this but if this were true does this mean it is lawful to have cameras in public bathrooms and hotel rooms? it seems that would be an outright invasion of privacy:cool:
 
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