average balls per inning

pocketspeed

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
hey guys, i'm looking for a little info here and before someone suggests it i did do a search but didnt find exactly what i was looking for (although i have heard you guys are much more civilized then those phillistines over on the main forum :) )

ok heres what i am looking for: what would you say your average balls/inning is and how often are you kept in your chair for on average whilst your opponent is at the table?

over in the main forum the 'resurgence in straight pool" thread keeps resurging and i always get looked into battle with a couple of guys who say 14.1 is boring b/c of having to sit whilst your opponent runs a 100. unless your at the very top tier i just dont see this happening all that often. i'm looking for a little vindication here guys.

thanks

brian
 

Nostroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
pocketspeed said:
hey guys, i'm looking for a little info here and before someone suggests it i did do a search but didnt find exactly what i was looking for (although i have heard you guys are much more civilized then those phillistines over on the main forum :) )

ok heres what i am looking for: what would you say your average balls/inning is and how often are you kept in your chair for on average whilst your opponent is at the table?

over in the main forum the 'resurgence in straight pool" thread keeps resurging and i always get looked into battle with a couple of guys who say 14.1 is boring b/c of having to sit whilst your opponent runs a 100. unless your at the very top tier i just dont see this happening all that often. i'm looking for a little vindication here guys.

thanks

brian

I think i read somewhere that throughout an entire tourny in the 50's/60's with all the greats, the avg per inning was 12 balls.
 

mullyman

Hung Like a Gnat!
Silver Member
Don't forget that you are talking to pool players, a group of people that belong with the biggest liars in the world. Every time you turn around you read of someone running multiple racks and hundreds of balls like it's a given. Not to mention some of the biggest big money gamblers in the world..........that's why they're all posting on a message board. <cough>

I would say on a normal night you're not sitting for very long. Don't take my word for it though.
MULLY
 

claymont

GET SOME
Gold Member
Silver Member
pocketspeed said:
hey guys, i'm looking for a little info here and before someone suggests it i did do a search but didnt find exactly what i was looking for (although i have heard you guys are much more civilized then those phillistines over on the main forum :) )

ok heres what i am looking for: what would you say your average balls/inning is and how often are you kept in your chair for on average whilst your opponent is at the table?

over in the main forum the 'resurgence in straight pool" thread keeps resurging and i always get looked into battle with a couple of guys who say 14.1 is boring b/c of having to sit whilst your opponent runs a 100. unless your at the very top tier i just dont see this happening all that often. i'm looking for a little vindication here guys.

thanks

brian

I've played in three leagues in my area the last three years, the best player isn't doing anymore than 5/6 BPI. Best I've done: around 4.5 BPI. You're not sitting that long in most cases. Nobody is running anymore than 40 balls. If you guys are better than that, then, take that into consideration.
 

sjm

Sweating it at Derby City
Silver Member
Nostroke said:
I think i read somewhere that throughout an entire tourny in the 50's/60's with all the greats, the avg per inning was 12 balls.

This is way too high. Here are the balls per inning figures from the US Open 14.1 event of 1967.

1st place finisher Jimmy Caras had an 11.02 BPI
2nd place Luther Lassiter had 6.86
3rd place Irving Crane had 9.29
4th place Dallas West had 8.26
5th place John Ervolino had 7.00
6th place Jack Breit had 6.66
7th place Joe Balsis had 10.70
8th place Frank McGown had 6.86
9th place Steve Mizerak had 9.23
10th place Dan Gartner had 8.16
11th place Alton Whitlow had 6.66
12th place Maynard Parish had 4.81
13th place Lou Butera had 10.05
14th place Cisero Murphy had 7.96

In other words, not even one player in the 1967 US Open 14.1 event managed twelve balls per inning.
 

Steve Lipsky

On quest for perfect 14.1
Silver Member
Pocketspeed,

This is a tricky question, and always has been. According to the strict definition of the term, the numbers you've seen so far (and especially those put together so nicely by SJM in the above post) are accurate.

But it seems you are more interested in how many balls the better players are running once they are running balls. This is a much different number because it excludes safeties from the calculation. Taken to an extreme, a game that begins with 9 safeties and then ends with a 150 ball run by one of the players will have a BPI of 15. This might imply that on average you won't be sitting very long at all, but of course, that is not the case in this example.

Someone, maybe SJM, once posted what either Irving Crane or Mike Sigel said about running balls: "I feel that to win at the world-class level, every time I get an open table I have to run at least 35-40 balls." That seems fair to me.

There was an extensive thread on this in the straight pool forum about a year ago or so. Here it is:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=58928&highlight=balls+inning

- Steve
 

Roy Steffensen

not banned
Silver Member
SJM: Thanks for the stats. I can't tell how sad it makes me feel that no one publish stats like that for the European 14-1 Championship or the World 14-1 Championship... They have all the scorecards, so why not take the time to do the stats and save them for history?
 

sjm

Sweating it at Derby City
Silver Member
Steve Lipsky said:
Someone, maybe SJM, once posted what either Irving Crane or Mike Sigel said about running balls: "I feel that to win at the world-class level, every time I get an open table I have to run at least 35-40 balls." That seems fair to me.

Yes, that was me, but Crane did not say "at least 35" but instead suggested he needed to average about 35 per open table to contend for the top 14.1 titles. I also noted that Jack Colavita, a two time top-ten finisher in the World 14.1 championship event, concurred with Irving's assessment of what it takes.
 

rikdee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Such discussions are always interesting. Yet, they always go directly to the championship level as the benchmark. Frankly the OP was seemingly more interested in the everyday game that most of us play. Seldom are we heading to the room to play a Mike Sigel-caliber player. In the context of casual play, I'd say anyone who can run a consistent 25 or 30, given an open table, will play amongst the best players in most any room.

Rick
 

sjm

Sweating it at Derby City
Silver Member
rikdee said:
I'd say anyone who can run a consistent 25 or 30, given an open table, will play amongst the best players in most any room.

Anyone who can do that has a realistic shot to advance past the round robin stage at the World 14.1 Championships.
 

rikdee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
sjm said:
Anyone who can do that has a realistic shot to advance past the round robin stage at the World 14.1 Championships.


Couldn't agree more. In other words, 100 ball runs are not what makes a good 14.1 player. Like I said, 25 or 30 is solid play by most anyone's definition. Thanks, SMJ, for your comment.
 

Marop

14.1 - real pool
Silver Member
sjm said:
Anyone who can do that has a realistic shot to advance past the round robin stage at the World 14.1 Championships.

Much harder to do at the World Championships due to the Diamond Tables
 

Nostroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
sjm said:
This is way too high. Here are the balls per inning figures from the US Open 14.1 event of 1967.

1st place finisher Jimmy Caras had an 11.02 BPI

In other words, not even one player in the 1967 US Open 14.1 event managed twelve balls per inning.

Yeah i must be remembering the BEST PI stat in a tourny. Thanks for the info.
 

Cameron Smith

is kind of hungry...
Silver Member
I did some stats on the first straight pool match between Danny Harriman and John Schmidt. I don't remember the exact numbers but,

Excluding safeties John Schmidt averaged 33 balls per inning,

Danny Harriman averaged 25 balls per inning.

I would love to get my hands on the second match and see what Danny averaged.
 

pocketspeed

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
rikdee said:
Such discussions are always interesting. Yet, they always go directly to the championship level as the benchmark. Frankly the OP was seemingly more interested in the everyday game that most of us play. Seldom are we heading to the room to play a Mike Sigel-caliber player. In the context of casual play, I'd say anyone who can run a consistent 25 or 30, given an open table, will play amongst the best players in most any room.

Rick

thanks rick. its great hearing what the world beaters are averaging. i was interested in what some of the 14.1 guys that frequent this forum would say that their avg balls/inning is. anecdotal info is fine. i just cant believe the guys over in the main forum saying they think straight pools is boring b/c you end up sitting in your chair for an hour whilst your opponent runs a 100.

brian
 
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