average high runs

[jieiko]

Hello everyone,

I have a question about daily high runs and ability categories. Is there a chart that explains what the average high run is for each level of player? I'm not talking about best run ever but a daily average high run over a weeks time or a months time. For example, let's say someone can average a high run of 50 balls every time they play on any given day. What skill level would that person be at?

Cheers,
J.

 

[stevekur1]

Hello everyone,

I have a question about daily high runs and ability categories. Is there a chart that explains what the average high run is for each level of player? I'm not talking about best run ever but a daily average high run over a weeks time or a months time. For example, let's say someone can average a high run of 50 balls every time they play on any given day. What skill level would that person be at?

Cheers,
J.

I am interested to read the replies on this thread, i have often thought the same thing.

I always tell players to not worry so much about beating thier High Runs but to improve or maintain thier averages.

-Steve

 

[BigDeal52]

I am basing my feelings on what happens in our 14.1 league. We have about 26 players and I would say that 5 of them are A players. I do not believe any of the A players have a 50 ball run in every match they play. So I would say if you average a 50 ball run every match you are one hell of a 14.1 player. Amongst our A players I would guess they average around 35 or 40 for a high run in their matches. Of course we are in Texas and most of us have not grown up playing 14.1 like some of you east coast folks so take that into consideration too. I am interested in hearing what others say along with what part of the country you are from.

 

[jieiko]

I'm starting to think that we need to make a chart of our own.

So using BigDeal52's data so far we cans say:

35-40 ball daily high run is equal to an A player.

I think this is a good idea because it could give some people a goal to shoot for when practicing. We should establish a category for each level as well. How about something like the following:

Top Pro level or AAA player
Professional level or AA player
Top Amateur/ entry level pro or A player
B player
C player

I guess we could refine it or have different names such as grand master, master, A and B.

More suggestions and ideas are certainly welcome. The more input we have the better the chart.

Thank you BigDeal52

 

[jieiko]

As Steve mentioned in the above post: "I always tell players to not worry so much about beating thier High Runs but to improve or maintain thier averages."

That is certainly some sound advice.

I think in a similar manner: a high run happens now and again, but consistency is really what creates those high runs. Plus, trying to beat your highest run can cause frustration and disappointment for some people.

 

[sjm]

As Steve mentioned in the above post: "I always tell players to not worry so much about beating thier High Runs but to improve or maintain thier averages.".

Unfortunately, this doesn't differentiate between a run that ends with a miss and an run that ends with a safety. The only meaningful measure of a 14.1 player is wins and losses. If you can beat players that used to beat you, then you are improving.

Don't manage your average run, mange your wins and losses, and as you improve in your wins and losses, start playing against tougher players to validate your progress.

 

[stevekur1]

Unfortunately, this doesn't differentiate between a run that ends with a miss and an run that ends with a safety. The only meaningful measure of a 14.1 player is wins and losses. If you can beat players that used to beat you, then you are improving.

Don't manage your average run, mange your wins and losses, and as you improve in your wins and losses, start playing against tougher players to validate your progress.

I totally agree with you on this Stu !!

Steve

 

[jieiko]

I agree with managing wins and losses, but what I'm looking for is a reference for balls run and playing level. Playing safe because you mismanaged your position or missing a ball is still a reflection of your ability.

 

[Dan White]

I think some people are thinking about average high runs during competition while others are talking about practice.

OK, I'll bite:

Daily practice session, play at least two hours just trying to run balls. After a miss, start each new run with a new break ball and new rack. Set up a realistic straight pool break shot, not a gimmick break that sends balls everywhere. This is the typical high run achieved almost every day of play with excellent table conditions:

Professional: 98 or 7 racks
A level player: 56 or 4 racks
B level player: 35 or about 2.5 racks
C level player: 28 or 2 racks
D level player: 14 or less

Of course there are gradations between levels.

I put B close to C because the hardest thing to do in straight pool is not running all 14 balls, but doing that and leaving a good break shot on the last ball. The C player won't have much hope of getting on more than one break ball (other than the first one with ball in hand), but the B player will, albeit maybe not the best break shot, and so just a few more balls made in that rack (35 total).

Rest assured, great thought was given to the myriad intricacies involved in formulating such a sophisticated scale.

 

[sjm]

I agree with managing wins and losses, but what I'm looking for is a reference for balls run and playing level. Playing safe because you mismanaged your position or missing a ball is still a reflection of your ability.

Yes, but having to play safe because you missed position is, theoretically speaking, like half a miss, as half the time you'll be the one that has the next good look at the table. Of course, that's only if you compete enough to solidify your safety play.

Playing 14.1 without an opponent is not the best path to becoming a winning competitor.

 

[jieiko]

Thank you Dan White!

I believe we are finally getting a good average for playing level ability. I like what smj has to say about competition and goal setting placed on beating better players, but some people like to consider the of aspect of oneself against the table and this will help those individuals to gauge their performance with a categorical chart.


Now, are there some amendments that should made with the categories that Dan has provided?

 

[stevekur1]

In Phil Capelle's Book DVD companion Breakshot Patterns there's 62 pages all about side pocket key balls.

I highly suggest this great book/DVD as a great learning toot !!

Steve

View attachment 384709

 

[stevekur1]

Oops wrong thread !!!

My bad
Steve

 

[jieiko]

No worries! I've been looking at getting that book/dvd for a while, maybe it's a sign.

 

[LTL]

I have a related question... What is the average Balls Per Inning (BPI) for a professional player? I am not sure how the scoring is calculated at the pro level, but I would imagine that it would factor in safeties.

I realize that most pro's can run 100 balls or more at any given time, but what I am more interested in knowing is what a pro's average balls per inning is in tournament play. (Say a 150 or 200 point match).

 

[kkdanamatt]

I have a related question... What is the average Balls Per Inning (BPI) for a professional player? I am not sure how the scoring is calculated at the pro level, but I would imagine that it would factor in safeties.

I realize that most pro's can run 100 balls or more at any given time, but what I am more interested in knowing is what a pro's average balls per inning is in tournament play. (Say a 150 or 200 point match).

During the hey-day of 14.1 pro tournaments in the 1960's and 1970's, the typical highest averages were slightly over 10 balls per inning. I remember that Mizerak had an average of almost 12 balls per inning when he won the title in 1971.

I was the referee for a 150 point match in the 80's between Ray Martin and Jack Colavita. Each either played safe or took intentional scratches about twenty times. That's what brought those averages 'way down.

Today, very few players would do that, so the average balls per inning is probably higher.

 

[alstl]

The problem with these assessments is they don't take into account equipment. When they put a 5x10 table at the DCC a few years ago only one pro ran 100 balls for the entire tournament.

 

[stevekur1]

I have a related question... What is the average Balls Per Inning (BPI) for a professional player? I am not sure how the scoring is calculated at the pro level, but I would imagine that it would factor in safeties.

I realize that most pro's can run 100 balls or more at any given time, but what I am more interested in knowing is what a pro's average balls per inning is in tournament play. (Say a 150 or 200 point match).

this only works if players track thier safties correctly !!!

Steve "the Comish"

 

[LTL]

this only works if players track thier safties correctly !!!

Steve "the Comish"

Well as you know Comish, amateurs' aren't as good at keeping score as the pro's!

We always here about the high runs that the pro's make, but what's the average BPI of a typical (pro) match?

 

[stevekur1]

Well as you know Comish, amateurs' aren't as good at keeping score as the pro's!

We always here about the high runs that the pro's make, but what's the average BPI of a typical (pro) match?

I dont think the Average is as high as you would think !!