Back To Elbow Dropping..........

[mosconiac]

Don...The reason for not dropping the elbow is to keep the stroke moving in a linear (straight line) movement.

I'm not taking sides, but this is only true for horizontal movement. A pendulum stroke conversely degrades your ability to maintain linear movement in the vertical plane. With a true pendulum stroke, the vertical path of the cue tip is a long, sideways 's'.

The following article by Bob Jewett has a very nice illustration of this.
http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/2004-02.pdf

 

[seymore15074]

Don...The reason for not dropping the elbow is to keep the stroke moving in a linear (straight line) movement. This is much more easily done with no elbow drop, as the elbow, as a hinge, only opens and closes one way. The shoulder, which becomes involved with dropping the elbow, is a ball & socket, which allows the cue to be moved many different ways, and makes it very difficult to keep the stroke linear.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

That would be great, then assuming 2 things: 1. you're contacting the ball when the cue is straight (between when the tip goes from going up to going down) and 2. that your cue is attached to your arm before the wrist and without a hand.

I mean, it soulds like a good point and all, but there are other factors here, namely the wrist movement and even fingers/grip movement.

 

[Endymion]

I'm not taking sides, but this is only true for horizontal movement. A pendulum stroke conversely degrades your ability to maintain linear movement in the vertical plane.

Right, but we only care about the movement of the tip during contact w/the CB, and if the bottom of the pendulum stroke coincides w/that very short time frame, then you get a linear stroke when it matters (w/no complications from the shoulder joint).

 

[davidwoj]

Some may disagree, especially the educators among us, but so what if they drop thier elbow. In my opinion it's about what happens at the point of contact.

Think about the different golf swings. Jim Furyk has the most awkward swing, but yet is a good ball striker and an elite golfer. If you compared Furyk's swing against Tiger's swing, the closest the two swings will match is at contact - when it matters.

From my view it's the same with baseball swings. There are as many different swings as their are players, yet the good hitters all look pretty much the same at the point of contact.

My view is as long as players are able to get into a good ball striking position at the point of contact, it doesn't really matter what they do to get there. Myself, I just want to reduce the variances in my stroke to gain consistency.

 

[Bob Jewett]

... My view is as long as players are able to get into a good ball striking position at the point of contact, it doesn't really matter what they do to get there. Myself, I just want to reduce the variances in my stroke to gain consistency.

This of course is the goal, and some people seem to lose sight of the goal while studying some techniques that might achieve the goal.

Perhaps the best example in stroke-land of keeping goals foremost is Mike Davis. He is fully aware that people think his stroke looks goofy, but he can hit the ball the same way all the time the way he does it. For those who haven't seen Mike play, all of the motion is from the shoulder, or at least that's what it looks like. He seems to keep his elbow joint fixed.

THBS (that having been said), I would not advise a new student to copy Mike's stroke (or Bustamante's stroke, either), when working on fundamentals. For most players, life's too short to make those techniques work.

 

[Inzombiac]

I only elbow drop off the top turnbuckle. Anything else is uncivilized.

 

[DoomCue]

Some may disagree, especially the educators among us, but so what if they drop thier elbow. In my opinion it's about what happens at the point of contact.

Think about the different golf swings. Jim Furyk has the most awkward swing, but yet is a good ball striker and an elite golfer. If you compared Furyk's swing against Tiger's swing, the closest the two swings will match is at contact - when it matters.

From my view it's the same with baseball swings. There are as many different swings as their are players, yet the good hitters all look pretty much the same at the point of contact.

My view is as long as players are able to get into a good ball striking position at the point of contact, it doesn't really matter what they do to get there. Myself, I just want to reduce the variances in my stroke to gain consistency.

To reinforce Bob's statement, I don't think you're ever going to find a golf instructor trying to teach Furyk's swing to a new student, or a pool instructor trying to teach Keith's or Mike Davis's stroke.

You're right, what matters is what's done at contact, but for players who are a little closer to a "normal" or "ideal" form, it's a lot easier to diagnose problems with what's done at contact.

To take it to an extreme, you can Happy Gilmore a pool shot if you want, but it'd be really difficult to determine why you can't consistently hit center ball with it.

-djb

 

[davidwoj]

Not everyday someone can work Happy Gilmore and pool into a post. Nice reference. I wish I had thought of it

 

[seymore15074]

Not everyday someone can work Happy Gilmore and pool into a post. Nice reference. I wish I had thought of it

I know a guy that uses a "Happy Gilmore" break. Not seriously, but you'd be suprised how well he breaks doing it just to be funny.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

klockdoc:
Here, analyze this. Doesn't appear that Efren is shooting the ball that hard.

I think the only analysis possible for Efren's stroke is that some players can get away with anything. Not only does his elbow drop, but his back hand swoops and his head and shoulders move too. If I was the referee, I'd ticket him for moving violations (and ask for lessons).

pj
chgo

 

[JoeyInCali]

I think the only analysis possible for Efren's stroke is that some players can get away with anything. Not only does his elbow drop, but his back hand swoops and his head and shoulders move too. If I was the referee, I'd ticket him for moving violations (and ask for lessons).

pj
chgo

That's true but his tip always goes thru that cueball smoothly.
He lets that cue just slide off his "grip" hand.

 

[kildegirl]

piston stroke

i've been watching some of my Accu-Stats tapes over this past weekend of the 1994 U.S. Open Final between Efren and Nick Varner. also been watching the 2002 Hasseroder World Pool Championship Final between Earl and Francisco Bustamante.

one thing is very clear to me...........they are dropping their elbows. and at times its a very noticeable drop. there was a shot by Varner where he dropped his elbow so much it just sort of leaped out at me it was so noticeable.

what to make of this, i just dont know............

DCP

it is a piston stroke, flat and level