Bad cushions/rails?

[WestElder]

I may have asked a similar question before, but I'm now ready to do something about this. I have a 9' table (3 yrs old). I also play at a local hall that has GC-IVs. I notice that the ball sounds different when it hits the rails and travels different distances between my table on the one hand, and the tables at the hall on the other.

On my table I hear a somewhat loud clunk/thunk noise when I drive the cue ball into the rail on a hard shot. The GC's don't make that kind of noise at all. The other thing is that my cushions play true, but I get less travel distance from a hard break style shot. My table gets about 4 full table travels, and the GC's get noticeably more, about 1/2 - 3/4 extra table length. BTW, I have worn Simonis 860 on my table, which plays fast.

I told my dealer that my cushions are dead and they came out and checked it out. The tech tightened the rail bolts, but the behavior didn't change. They're willing to agree that there is a problem, and have decided that it is the rubber in the cushions. I'm not so sure for a few reasons, and I don't want to replace the rubber and have the problem continue.

First, the cushions play consistently and give true bounces. Second, I don't see how the rubber contributes to the thunking noise. Last, why would all of the rubber be (equally) bad?

Should I tell them to make a deeper evaluation of the rails and/or frame, too?

 

[scruffy1]

curious to what model table you have? defective or improper height
cushion can definitely give you your described thunk noise.

The frame will have nothing to do with it. Check the height.

 

[n10spool]

On hard shots into the rail the rail rubber can lift up and the ball strikes the the wood rail making that thud souond, rail rubber can be loose or not glued right on the bottom of the rail or voids in it so air rushes out in the uneven spots were the rubber broke loose.

Other causes could be loose name plate, pocket irons and screws, trim mouldings and blind rails may have come loose they use real small screws and you lean against them alot. I assume its a home table and not a commercial table thier are alot a suttle differences between the two..

Does it do it on all the rails or which one's?

Takes two people to track it down faster time, trial and error will find it



Craig

 

[realkingcobra]

I may have asked a similar question before, but I'm now ready to do something about this. I have a 9' table (3 yrs old). I also play at a local hall that has GC-IVs. I notice that the ball sounds different when it hits the rails and travels different distances between my table on the one hand, and the tables at the hall on the other.

On my table I hear a somewhat loud clunk/thunk noise when I drive the cue ball into the rail on a hard shot. The GC's don't make that kind of noise at all. The other thing is that my cushions play true, but I get less travel distance from a hard break style shot. My table gets about 4 full table travels, and the GC's get noticeably more, about 1/2 - 3/4 extra table length. BTW, I have worn Simonis 860 on my table, which plays fast.

I told my dealer that my cushions are dead and they came out and checked it out. The tech tightened the rail bolts, but the behavior didn't change. They're willing to agree that there is a problem, and have decided that it is the rubber in the cushions. I'm not so sure for a few reasons, and I don't want to replace the rubber and have the problem continue.

First, the cushions play consistently and give true bounces. Second, I don't see how the rubber contributes to the thunking noise. Last, why would all of the rubber be (equally) bad?

Should I tell them to make a deeper evaluation of the rails and/or frame, too?

Look under the frame of the table and try to see if the slate is up on shims all the way around the table. I bet they didn't level the frame of the table, brought in the slates, and shimed the slates level...elevated above the frame of the table...causing the rails to have a hollow sound when the balls are banked into them, because the sound is not being deadened by the frame of the table

Glen

 

[WestElder]

Glen, That is an interesting idea that didn't occur to me. If that is the case, I'd have to tear down the whole table and re-install it from scratch. But wouldn't you expect the rails to play at different speeds, then?

To an earlier question, the contact point on the rails is 1 3/8", which is the same height of the rails of other tables by the same mfgr at the showroom where I bought the table. Those tables don't make the sound, either, and play faster.

 

[tsp&b]

Thunk

Think, Thank, Thunk! . It has been my experience that the "thunk" is most often produced by loose rail bolts or the rubber has come loose or partially loose from the wood rails. I would suggest that you: 1. check the rail bolts again yourself to make sure they are tight. If they are tight then I would inspect the rails to see if the bond between wood and rubber is good. To do that properly it requires removing rail then removing the cloth and carefully inspect (top and bottom). At that time you can check the condition of the rubber itself.

 

[realkingcobra]

Glen, That is an interesting idea that didn't occur to me. If that is the case, I'd have to tear down the whole table and re-install it from scratch. But wouldn't you expect the rails to play at different speeds, then?

To an earlier question, the contact point on the rails is 1 3/8", which is the same height of the rails of other tables by the same mfgr at the showroom where I bought the table. Those tables don't make the sound, either, and play faster.

So, how is the slate mounted...on piles of shimms?

Glen

To many times if a table don't have adjustable leg levelers, the technician instead of adding shims under the feet of the table, will choose to shim the level of the table between the slate and the frame of the table, which leaves the slate mounted airborne so to speak over the frame of the table standing on shim stilts, which causes sound effects. You can only check and tighten bolts so many times. If nothing explains what the problem is, then start looking for the unexplainable

Glen

 

[WestElder]

Shims are between the slates and the cross-pieces. No shims under the base, which is also not adjustable. I think the design of this table assumes that shims will be where they were placed.

 

[realkingcobra]

Shims are between the slates and the cross-pieces. No shims under the base, which is also not adjustable. I think the design of this table assumes that shims will be where they were placed.

But are the shims stacked up thick anywhere under the slate? How much of the slate rests on the frame vs how much of the slate is on shims?

Glen

 

[mechanic/player]

Hi Glen, I was just wondering what is the maximum space that you allow between the slate and frame.I know it's different with each table type but isn't being shimmed off the frame a little bit the same as being shimmed off the frame alot as far as the harmonics of the table are concerned? I do agree that sound is amplified when the slate is shimmed off of the frame .

 

[realkingcobra]

Hi Glen, I was just wondering what is the maximum space that you allow between the slate and frame.I know it's different with each table type but isn't being shimmed off the frame a little bit the same as being shimmed off the frame alot as far as the harmonics of the table are concerned? I do agree that sound is amplified when the slate is shimmed off of the frame .

Slate should only be shimmed to level it according to the level of the frame of the table, kind of as a way of compensating the level of the frame. In other words, the frame should be leveled as close as possible to the slate, the only reason for the slate not to be touching the frame is in 2 cases. ONE, the frame is swayback, but the slates are touching the frame at both ends and the center is raised to level. TWO, the center of the frame is high, in which case the center slate is touching, but both ends are off the frame, but raised to level...seldom ever happens like that though...LOL. So, all frames should be leveled as close to possible before the slates are leveled as a final level.

Glen

PS. I have leveled an 8ft table to where the center slate was 3/4" off the frame of the table, but still...both ends of the slates were touching the frame and I made sure the owner was aware of the swayback in the frame of the cheap ass table he bought so it wouldn't come back to bite me

 

[mechanic/player]

Thank you for the explanation, that is exactly what I am seeing out there too. Unfourtanately I see it in some of the higher priced new tables that I do as well.

 

[WestElder]

But are the shims stacked up thick anywhere under the slate? How much of the slate rests on the frame vs how much of the slate is on shims?

Glen

No, there's one shim on the crossing rails. I talked to a sr tech at the manufacturer the other day (he even answered the phone himself!). He also doesn't understand what is happening and says they've never had a set of rubber go bad before. But, they're game to replace them as a first step. If that doesn't work, the next step is whatever idea anybody comes up with. BTW, I don't consider this a problem that people here or elsewhere are familiar with or a defect that the mfgr has encountered before, so I'll mention that the mfgr/model is Olhausen Monarch. I'm very impressed with both the dealer and mfgr's concern and willingness to work with me to get this taken care of.

 

[realkingcobra]

No, there's one shim on the crossing rails. I talked to a sr tech at the manufacturer the other day (he even answered the phone himself!). He also doesn't understand what is happening and says they've never had a set of rubber go bad before. But, they're game to replace them as a first step. If that doesn't work, the next step is whatever idea anybody comes up with. BTW, I don't consider this a problem that people here or elsewhere are familiar with or a defect that the mfgr has encountered before, so I'll mention that the mfgr/model is Olhausen Monarch. I'm very impressed with both the dealer and mfgr's concern and willingness to work with me to get this taken care of.

Now that I know it's an Olhausen...LOL, no...it's not the cushions, I don't think I've ever seen a bad set of cushions on an Olhausen table before

Glen

 

[Dead Crab]

The explaination that the problem is from the slate-frame interface is probably the correct one.

However, I have cut rails out of both poplar and pine and had them on the same table. I don't notice a difference in how they play, but they do sound differently. And, I must say, neither sounds like a Gold Crown.

If you have different sounds for different rails on your table, I would tend to think there is something mechanically wrong. But if they all sound the same, it may just be that it is because of what they are made of, and the cushions you have may not be as lively as the GC's.

 

[Club Billiards]

I'm sure with the age of your table it's not the rubber going bad. Sounds like Glen could be right about the slate being off the frame. Some other possibilities I've run into before:

1) Does anyone/anything sit on the table? When people sit on the rails, many times it will break the rubber off the face of the rail. That can cause a loose spot in the rubber and make a thunk noise when the ball hits. Would also change the cushion height though in that spot so probably not the issue.

2) The rubber is pulled UP off the face of the rail.... I've mostly seen this on bar tables where people kneel down to get the balls out of the return to rack and then pull themselves up by the rail. If you lay your rack on the floor and someone has to kneel down to pick it up, they may be pulling the rubber up when they pull themselves back up to rack. This could cause the sound but if the top of the rubber is still bonded wouldn't change the rail height. The rails may still play good but could make that noise.

3) Has anyone tried to move your table without disassembling it? I've seen people for whatever reason (carpet install/replacement, wife wants the table 2" to the left, etc...) get 6 buddies and a case of beer and pick the table up to move it. The way the blinds are put on the rails on Olhausen tables, it's pretty easy to loosen them if you try this. A loose blind could make a thunk when the ball hits that rail.

Most of these problems happen with Average Joes aka General Public aka "bangers", not good players who respect their equipment. Might just be something to think about. Worst case hopefully I've given some people a list of what NOT to do. Hope you get your problem fixed! Olhausen is a very good company about making sure their customers are happy with their products, so stick with it.

 

[realkingcobra]

I have a question....is Olhausen still making the two part top rails? It's been a long time since I've had anything to do with Olhausen tables, but if so, there could be an issue with the construction of the rails that could cause some sound effects as well.

Glen

 

[WestElder]

Josh, none of those things ever happens. I'm pretty much the only one who plays on the table, and I take very good care of it. Nobody sits, stands, kneels or pulls on it. It hasn't been moved and I keep the room at almost constant temperature and humidity. It plays true even though it hasn't been releveled in three years, and I've tightened the rail bolts a number of times.

 

[Club Billiards]

I have a question....is Olhausen still making the two part top rails? It's been a long time since I've had anything to do with Olhausen tables, but if so, there could be an issue with the construction of the rails that could cause some sound effects as well.

Glen

Good question. I'd have to look in to that, but I don't know that they've changed that. Most rails seem to play very quiet though, so I don't think rail construction is the logical problem here. Possibility though, but I'd say not likely.

By the way...when are you coming back east? We're looking forward to finding a time to meet up with you. Talk to again soon, Glen.

 

[Club Billiards]

Josh, none of those things ever happens. I'm pretty much the only one who plays on the table, and I take very good care of it. Nobody sits, stands, kneels or pulls on it. It hasn't been moved and I keep the room at almost constant temperature and humidity. It plays true even though it hasn't been releveled in three years, and I've tightened the rail bolts a number of times.

Sounds like that narrows it down to Glen's idea. Could be the gap between the slate and the frame from the shims. If Olhausen is willing to replace the rubber to make you happy, before they get in to all of that, you may want to suggest they take a look at relevelling it. They'll have to have the rails off anyway, so it wouldn't take anything more than a glance to tell if it's right or not, I'd say. Good luck!