Bad Problem with John Showman, (Cue Stolen)

[Ken_4fun]

So, Showman finally posts to this thread and all he can say is "I agree." He must love all the negative attention. I'll be contacting law enforcement officials by the end of the week if Big John has not returned my cue. I would love to post a photo of him in handcuffs being walked out of his house.

Showman posted to this thread this morning at 1:30 am. I sure hope he was up either finishing the project or boxing up my cue in whatever condition it is in to be shipped back to me.

Please forward me the picture of John in handcuffs, Id like to post it my poolroom....:thumbup:

Ken

 

[Sloppy Pockets]

So, Showman finally posts to this thread and all he can say is "I agree." He must love all the negative attention. I'll be contacting law enforcement officials by the end of the week if Big John has not returned my cue. I would love to post a photo of him in handcuffs being walked out of his house.

Showman posted to this thread this morning at 1:30 am. I sure hope he was up either finishing the project or boxing up my cue in whatever condition it is in to be shipped back to me.

So, you're a lawyer, but you feel it's OK to continually extort John into complying with your demands? Extortion is a crime, and you should know it. The fact that you have previously done it (via e-mail) and continue to do it on the Internet makes it a federal crime. Let's see who ends up in cuffs when this all plays out. Mr. Showman has committed no actual crime, but you have. You must use legal means to get you cue/money back, and not use threats of other actions if you don't. As a lawyer, you may issue a legal threat (intent) to sue, but that's it. You can't go threatening to expose a person, nor can you threaten to send the police. You have gone way beyond the pale with your bullying here. Hope you have a good lawyer.

 

[Cezar Morales]

So, you're a lawyer, but you feel it's OK to continually extort John into complying with your demands? Extortion is a crime, and you should know it. The fact that you have previously done it (via e-mail) and continue to do it on the Internet makes it a federal crime. Let's see who ends up in cuffs when this all plays out. Mr. Showman has committed no actual crime, but you have. You must use legal means to get you cue/money back, and not use threats of other actions if you don't. As a lawyer, you may issue a legal threat (intent) to sue, but that's it. You can't go threatening to expose a person, nor can you threaten to send the police. You have gone way beyond the pale with your bullying here. Hope you have a good lawyer.

Oh my, gawd, just done wiping the tears from my eyes after reading your post , you're hilarious Sir !

I'm sure it's gonna tickle the op too !

How is asking the party who took your cue and your money to return it back otherwise or you gonna have to inform others of the misdeed and report it to the authorities a misdeed ?

I sure hope one day that you don't get your stuff in possesion of people that refuse to return it to you

 

[Poolplaya9]

So, you're a lawyer, but you feel it's OK to continually extort John into complying with your demands? Extortion is a crime, and you should know it. The fact that you have previously done it (via e-mail) and continue to do it on the Internet makes it a federal crime. Let's see who ends up in cuffs when this all plays out. Mr. Showman has committed no actual crime, but you have. You must use legal means to get you cue/money back, and not use threats of other actions if you don't. As a lawyer, you may issue a legal threat (intent) to sue, but that's it. You can't go threatening to expose a person, nor can you threaten to send the police. You have gone way beyond the pale with your bullying here. Hope you have a good lawyer.

Been a while since I've seen a post this out of line. Quality Cues can "expose" what happened all he wants to. If someone has your property and refuses to return it on demand, it is absolutely appropriate to call the police. It may be a crime, or it may be a civil matter, but it is plenty appropriate to call the police and let them decide if they feel a crime has been committed. Nothing wrong with letting the person know that you might call the police because they won't return your property either.

 

[Sloppy Pockets]

Oh my, gawd, just done wiping the tears from my eyes after reading your post , you're hilarious Sir !

I'm sure it's gonna tickle the op too !

How is asking the party who took your cue and your money to return it back otherwise or you gonna have to inform others of the misdeed and report it to the authorities a misdeed ?

I sure hope one day that you don't get your stuff in possesion of people that refuse to return it to you

Because doing so is extortion by definition, and that is a crime in any jurisdiction.

And I have had it happen to me. I did make a threat to go to the police, and soon received a call from a friend of that person that this was extortion on my part. Thankfully, my threat was a phone call and not in writing and it would have been my word against hers. But she still has the cello I sold her on payments 25 years ago, and she never paid me another dime after that.

 

[sonny_burnett]

OP. IMHO you're just waisting your time and getting more upset.

It's clear that Showman has no morals. Take it to court. That's the only way it's going to be resolved.

It's a sad situation, and going to be expensive, unfortunately for you.

I have a feeling a summons will end this very quickly.

I'm just guessing that a $7700 dispute is not going to be settled in small claims court.

Sorry that you have been put through this. Good Luck!

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

[Sloppy Pockets]

Been a while since I've seen a post this out of line. Quality Cues can "expose" what happened all he wants to. If someone has your property and refuses to return it on demand, it is absolutely appropriate to call the police. It may be a crime, or it may be a civil matter, but it is plenty appropriate to call the police and let them decide if they feel a crime has been committed. Nothing wrong with letting the person know that you might call the police because they won't return your property either.

Again, it is appropriate to call the police, but not to threaten with such action. The threat part is the crime of extortion, not the actual call to the cops.

Early in this interchange the OP used the threat of exposure as a way to get Mr. Showman to comply. This is also extortion... a crime

 

[Sloppy Pockets]

Take it to court. That's the only way it's going to be resolved.

Yes, that's the way it should have been handled in the first place.

 

[Quality Cues]

I'm giving John Showman fair warning of my next move so he can avoid me getting law enforcement officials involved in the matter, just like I gave him plenty of fair warning that this post would go live the morning of 10/4/15. So, whether I go that route is up to him.

 

[sonny_burnett]

I'm giving John Showman fair warning of my next move so he can avoid me getting law enforcement officials involved in the matter. Just like I gave him plenty of fair warning that this post would go live the morning of 10/4/15. So, whether I go that route is up to him.

You're really not helping your cause with every new "line in the sand".

It's getting to be a bit redundant. Posturing ain't gonna cut it.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

[SplicedPoints]

Yes, that's the way it should have been handled in the first place.

Not saying it's right or wrong, but that sounds like a very odd interpretation of whatever law.

Party A has formed a legally binding Contract with Party B. B has repeatedly breached the contractual agreement and is now withholding property of A illegally. It's illegal because the property is not B's, the return date specified in the contractual agreement has passed, and A has repeatedly demanded the property be returned.

Now A cannot tell B to return or else?

But it's quite common for people to give ultimatums in disputes.

My understanding of extortion is that it's an act to coerce an action or property that you have no legal rights to. But surely that's different in this situation?

Again, no lawyer.

 

[Sloppy Pockets]

Not saying it's right or wrong, but that sounds like a very odd interpretation of whatever law.

Party A has formed a legally binding Contract with Party B. B has repeatedly breached the contractual agreement and is now withholding property of A illegally. It's illegal because the property is not B's, the return date specified in the contractual agreement has passed, and A has repeatedly demanded the property be returned.

Now A cannot tell B to return or else?

But it's quite common for people to give ultimatums in disputes.

My understanding of extortion is that it's an act to coerce an action or property that you have no legal rights to. But surely that's different in this situation?

Again, no lawyer.

http://criminal-law.freeadvice.com/criminal-law/violent_crimes/extortion.htm?body=

Extortion does not usually require that the offender threaten to commit a criminal act as long as the threat attempts to obtain money, property, or to force the victim to act against their will. For example, a threat to bring criminal charges or file a police report unless money is paid is still extortion, even though the offender may have every right to file a police report. By coupling the legal act with the illegal act of demanding payment to not act, the offender has committed extortion. Note, however, that a threat to file a civil lawsuit typically is not considered extortion even if that lawsuit is frivolous.

 

[cueaddicts]

Lol, Sloppy....I'm sure Mike has given this much thought and is well within his rights.

 

[CuesDirectly]

What did I miss? Extortion? TOO FUNNY,

Because doing so is extortion by definition, and that is a crime in any jurisdiction.

And I have had it happen to me. I did make a threat to go to the police, and soon received a call from a friend of that person that this was extortion on my part. Thankfully, my threat was a phone call and not in writing and it would have been my word against hers. But she still has the cello I sold her on payments 25 years ago, and she never paid me another dime after that.

In order for this to be true, the OP would be DEMANDING an extra Cue (or something of value) in order to avoid taking it public.

please retort in kind if I missed anything but please prove to me that the OP has DEMANDED anything other that his Cue and deposit, Thanks.

Prove me wrong, I will say I am sorry, TWICE OVER. Otherwise, remove your post.



Not taking order at this time.

 

[MaxiPool]

So, you're a lawyer, but you feel it's OK to continually extort John into complying with your demands? Extortion is a crime, and you should know it. The fact that you have previously done it (via e-mail) and continue to do it on the Internet makes it a federal crime. Let's see who ends up in cuffs when this all plays out. Mr. Showman has committed no actual crime, but you have. You must use legal means to get you cue/money back, and not use threats of other actions if you don't. As a lawyer, you may issue a legal threat (intent) to sue, but that's it. You can't go threatening to expose a person, nor can you threaten to send the police. You have gone way beyond the pale with your bullying here. Hope you have a good lawyer.

Amazing irony!

Oh wait...



WHY wouldn't he set the police on the scumbag that stole a cue worth 7k?

And as to extortion, it's not like he's wanting something extra for not going public or wanting something extra for not going to the police.
All he wants is the cue and the money the scumbag in this case stole from him.

 

[Quality Cues]

John called and we had a 10 minute or so chat. He apologized for his excessive delay in finishing the project, and explained what has been going on in his life. I wish that he had made that call before my thread went viral last Monday. He does not disagree with any of the facts contained in my thread, and harbors no ill will toward me for having posted it. John told me that he has about 8-10 hours left before the project is completed, and feels compelled to finish the project. While I want my cue back tomorrow, I've decided not to escalate the matter further with legal action and give John some additional time to complete the project. I'm hoping that I get the cue back with the project completed in the next week or two. I will keep you all posted as events unfold.

 

[maha]

your big mistake was sending him the 700 dollars. once he had that there was no money to be made by finishing. he had your cue as hostage so he didnt deserve to get any money in advance for the job.

all these great so called cue makers can resell any of their cues for what or more than you are paying for them even if they are special custom jobs. so there is no need and no reason for a customer to give them money in advance.

 

[ElCorazonFrio]

your big mistake was sending him the 700 dollars. once he had that there was no money to be made by finishing. he had your cue as hostage so he didnt deserve to get any money in advance for the job.

all these great so called cue makers can resell any of their cues for what or more than you are paying for them even if they are special custom jobs. so there is no need and no reason for a customer to give them money in advance.

Apparently you didn't get the memo:

We are all thrilled that this has been amicably resolved. Mr. Showman is a saint and the greatest living artist in recent history.

No more of this negativity, please.

 

[Sloppy Pockets]

your big mistake was sending him the 700 dollars. once he had that there was no money to be made by finishing. he had your cue as hostage so he didnt deserve to get any money in advance for the job.

I agree. In over 30 years in the musical instrument repair business, I never once took a penny of deposit money. I have had a few instruments for a very long time after I thought they'd be finished, but the customer was always able to get their instrument back as long as I hadn't started the work. This only happened once in all these years, and I was happy to let the woman take it without having to return a deposit. In a small business like mine money gets shuffled around all the time, so I don't want to get caught short if something goes wrong. Besides, having to wait for my payday was always a great incentive to get the job off the back burner and finished.

 

[Quality Cues]

Apparently you didn't get the memo:

We are all thrilled that this has been amicably resolved. Mr. Showman is a saint and the greatest living artist in recent history.

No more of this negativity, please.

It has not been "amicably resolved." I think that John was sincere in his statement that he will complete the work in the very near future. I don't want to get into our conversation because it is not anybody's business. If all he told me is true, I'm glad that I'm not walking in his shoes. But if he gets me my cue back with the project completed up to his very high standards, I will be glad to put this experience behind both of us.