Bad transaction report? When to give one?

Ross:
I believe at least 50% of people in the world are azzholes/morons/idiots (real % may be much higher). They are everywhere, on the road, at the grocery store, walking down the street and unfortunatly posting on AzBilliards too. It's only the law of averages that you'd get involved with one and experience grief because of it.
 
pharaoh68 said:
You're not serious are you??? :confused: Perhaps you should remove the word "Sleuth" from your sreen name. Scroll up buddy! The seller revealed himself already!
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The deal between Salamander and 1proscoe is NOT what the Sleuth is talking about or what the original subject of this thread was about. Don't knock our Poolsleuth, as he is correct in his statement. Stay with us Pharaoah! :)
 
pharaoh68 said:
You're not serious are you??? :confused: Perhaps you should remove the word "Sleuth" from your sreen name. Scroll up buddy! The seller revealed himself already!
Click to expand...

The seller has not revealed the name nor has the person stepped forward. The other posts in this thread about a bad deal involve another transaction.
 
I bought the cue to try a Jensen, and because I thought the price was right. As it turned out, I did several cue buys/swaps shortly thereafter and the Jensen was sold in the mix. It just wasn't meant to stay with me at this time.

I am far from a pricing expert, but I still think what I paid and sold it for was correct, and even a good buy for that cue. :cool:

George - sorry that your thread got hijacked . . .

Edit: this post is in reference to 1pRoscoe and Salamander deal. Not George's.
 
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George said:
I'm reluctant to give his name just yet, he could just be having a bad day(or 4)?

George
Click to expand...

Link to his F/S thread:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=30714

I'm no longer reluctant...........his handle is "boston.mike "
I am including all correspondance so that everyone has all the facts, if anyone thinks I did anything wrong here please let me know, anyone is capable of mistakes.

4/29/2006 12:40:43 P.M. Eastern Standard Time
email....me to him

"I received the cue yesterday. I am sending you this email because of a couple of problems with it. There is a dent in the forearm and there is also a deep scratch in the wrap that has damaged the wrap, the linen is actually broken where it is scratched. The dent and damage to the cue are clearly visible and did not happen during shipping because the cue was well wrapped.
I am open to suggestions but I am not happy about this because you described the cue as mint.

George"

this email was accompanied by the 2 pics I posted in this thread.
I recieved no response to this email.

04-30-2006, 11:59 PM est.
AZ PM....me to him 36 hours after 1st email

"I'm sure you got my email about the cue. I sent it yesterday and still no response yet you're posting on AZ. I would appreciate a response unless you'd like me to give a transaction report to the AZ forum based on the way things stand now.

George"

5/1/2006, 10:20 AM est
AZ PM .......him to me

"i have snet you 2 emails already, i was waiting for you to respond."

I received no emails

5/1/2006 11:27 AM est
AZ PM .....him to me

"i actually ent you 2 emails and i was waiting for you to respond. check youemail again as will i and i will forward them again if they are in my sent email"

again I received no emails

Today, 06:48 AM est
AZ PM......me to him

"I'm still waiting to hear from you. I sent you my email address yesterday in case you couldn't find it and you still haven't contacted me. If you don't contact me about this today then I'll leave appropriate feedback on AZ's forum. The choice is yours but I'm not waiting any longer to deal with this.

George"

I then, shortly thereafter started this thread hoping to push the issue a little. I find that the longer you let things like this drag on the less chance of reaching an agreeable solution.

I then received this email:
5/2/2006 11:28:48 A.M. Eastern Standard Time

"hello, i am not sure waht happend to the other email but i am sorry about yor cue. it was an honest miss. i dont use it. i know this doesnt involve you butt you know <deleted repected AZers handle> right? on az. i bout a new cue and he said it was just slightly used i get it and theres a chip in the collar! i emailed he said he was sorry he didnt see it if he did he would have told me. i let it slide cause i got a huge discount so i cant really complain, i did buy a "used cue". and as far as mint, the shaft has maybe hit less than 2 weeks worth so i believ it is mint its practically brand new and 100% functional. now i know there a few cosmetic things the dent, i dont think anything can be done, as far as the wrap, i know sledgehammer have a lifetime warranty. i sure it can be fixed? let me know"

My response:
5/2/2006 12:02:46 P.M. Eastern Standard Time

"Mike,
There's a big difference between a mint cue and the one I received. I can live with the dent, I will not live with the wrap. The cue needs to be rewrapped and I'm not paying to have it done. Mike Gulyassy does not warranty his cues for damage caused by mishandling a cue. He only warranties against defects in workmanship. I am suggesting 2 options and you can choose which you would prefer. You can eat the cost of a rewrap(I'll call Mike Webb and get a quote or you can call him) or you can have the cue back and refund me my money.
As far as the deal with <deleted repected AZers handle>......it doesn't concern me and if you were willing to settle for less than advertised then that's on you. I thought I was buying a *mint* Sledgehammer and you knew it had these problems and didn't mention it in your ad. That is false advertising and I don't think that's a fair way to do business. I await your response. Let's not drag this out any longer.

George"

His response to me:

"First of all, dont accuse me of what i know and do not know. i am an
honest seller and buyer i have never had bad feedback. 2 the wrap is
not going to fall off from what it looks like in the pic. also its
your risk for buying a used cue. but look at the deal you paid for it
maybe you would give in a little. i paid for insurance, shipping,
paypal fee, packaing cost. netting less than 160 for a practically
brand new 275+ cue. i think things should be ok. i will get back you
tonight when i get home late tonight."


I highlighted what I found humorous, nice attitude. His way of saying buyer beware I guess. I will not deal with him again on any level. You all will have to make your own decision on whether or not you want to deal with him.


My final response to him:

"Accuse nothing pal.......you think I'm going to believe for a second that you held this cue in your hands and didn't see the damage to the wrap? I can believe you maybe not seeing the dent, but the wrap? You'd have to be blind not to see it. I guess you take me for a shmuck, think again.
Just so there's no misunderstanding let me get this straight, you advertise a cue as mint, ship it to me damaged and then think I should be happy with it because in your opinion I got a great deal? On top of that you add "also its your risk for buying a used cue"???
Keep the money, you probably need it a lot more than I do. I'll keep the stick and chalk it up to experience and I'll fill in the guys at AZ so they realize just who they're dealing with if they choose to do business with you.

George"

Ok........that's all of it. I'll eat this deal just so I don't have to deal with this person again. The rest of you will have to decide for yourselves.

Caveat Emptor,
George
 
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Salamander said:
Or what...are you going to resort to violence? Sounds like a threat to me. Boy are you a nasty little guy.
Click to expand...

I never implied anything even remotely surrounding violence... I already know you have the cops and a lawyer on standby, based upon other posts you have made in the past.

Again, the email chain I posted already says enough, coupled with what you have eluded to in this thread thus far....
 
Buyer beware?

Why should any buyer beware. Only buy cues as satisfaction gaurented as money back minus shipping. Always ask for it ! Or you might wish you had! Nick
 
For the record, I have found this entire thread to be long and rather confusing. I responded to PoolSleuth's inquiry, apparently inaccurately, and for that, I apologize Sleuth. I will delete my post.

Ross, you know I'd never say anything bad about you (unless you ran over my dog and since my dog died about 12 years ago so I don't think that's happen anyway)!

To all of those that I've offended, the line forms to the left. Choose your weapon and step to the back! You'll all get your shots!
 
Pease Please!

Just think all this over the $20 difference of rewrap or send it back and eat the postage. George my Suggestion keep the cue pick a wrap you really like, maybe even leather. Then get it redone at your leisure and be happy got a good deal on a original sledge that would be even nicer with the custom wrap.
LET IT BE KNOWN I HAVE NO CONNECTION TO EITHER PARTY INVOLVED.
 
Par for the course

My experience with Ebay and other online sales is you get what you pay for. Most people seem to EXPECT that the so-called wonderful deal is for them only. If it was that great of a deal, most people would be selling the cue to someone at their local pool hall. What if the cue was referred to as "good condition" instead of "mint" would you have wanted to pay less? Or just expect less? I personally would not classify any cue with one month of use as mint under any circumstance...but that is just me. Any cue that is not coming from the dealer is used, plain and simple. I would classify a second hand cue that has only been test shot a couple times as mint. I have brand new cues that have been "dinged" by people wanted to test them out. Everyone on both sides will have different opinions and judgements about transactions. I just think its kinda petty that the exchanges that sometimes take place on this board over $50 is really really sad. Whether its a unpaid repair debt, a ding in a cue, or a $50 loan. I know that as a business owner I will refuse to sell to certain customers because of their past behavior over $5 or $50 transactions. Its not worth it to me for the headache. When you deal with someones reputation it works both ways.....sometimes both the seller AND the buyer make themselves look bad...and make other wary of dealing with them. I know I have not bought from plenty of Ebay people because of nasty comments that are unprofessional or off the subject. Just my rant and rave of the day.....one person's opinion.
 
cueandcushion said:
My experience with Ebay and other online sales is you get what you pay for. Most people seem to EXPECT that the so-called wonderful deal is for them only. If it was that great of a deal, most people would be selling the cue to someone at their local pool hall. What if the cue was referred to as "good condition" instead of "mint" would you have wanted to pay less? Or just expect less?

What I expect is to have accurate info on the cue so I can make a decision based on facts. So does this mean that you think this sale was on the up and up? You don't think the seller should have mentioned that the cue needed a new wrap? You don't think this is pertinent information? You would be happy with this transaction if you were me? I think not.

I personally would not classify any cue with one month of use as mint under any circumstance...but that is just me. Any cue that is not coming from the dealer is used, plain and simple. I would classify a second hand cue that has only been test shot a couple times as mint. I have brand new cues that have been "dinged" by people wanted to test them out. Everyone on both sides will have different opinions and judgements about transactions. I just think its kinda petty that the exchanges that sometimes take place on this board over $50 is really really sad. Whether its a unpaid repair debt, a ding in a cue, or a $50 loan. I know that as a business owner I will refuse to sell to certain customers because of their past behavior over $5 or $50 transactions. Its not worth it to me for the headache. When you deal with someones reputation it works both ways.....sometimes both the seller AND the buyer make themselves look bad...and make other wary of dealing with them. I know I have not bought from plenty of Ebay people because of nasty comments that are unprofessional or off the subject. Just my rant and rave of the day.....one person's opinion.
Click to expand...

So what exactly are you saying? I should accept a cue with this much damage when it was described as MINT? I should accept that I have to pay for a new wrap??? Anyone that feels I'm being petty and chooses not to do business with me because of this then that is their prerogative. I would think that most would want to know when something like this happens so that they will scrutinize any future sales offered by this guy.
I try to advertise fairly when I'm selling a cue(my ebay feedback is 100%) and I expect the same. If he had described the dent in the forearm and the damaged wrap I WOULD NOT have bought the cue. If it were just the dent I would have accepted it but the wrap will cost me so I feel like I've been deceived.
If he had just responded to my attempts to work this out I wouldn't have written this post. Communication is very important when doing transactions like this. When I evaluate a transaction where there is a problem I don't base my opinion on the fact that there was a problem. I form my opinion on how the problem was handled. If I feel like someone is being honest with me then I'll bend over backwards to work with them to reach a solution. When i feel like I've been intentionally deceived then I will act accordingly. I don't just go away when someone screws me.

$5 or $50 or $500.......it isn't the amount, it's the principle.

George
 
Did not want to imply that

Since I am outside of the transaction I do not know the extent of the damage and cannot give a realistic viewpoint of what is the proper resolution. If you are 100% accurate in your description and it was me..I would not be happy. I do not know if he should have mentioned it needed a new wrap. Probably not. He should have mentioned there was damage to the wrap. Whether it needed a new wrap is in the eye of the owner. My comment about pettiness was not directed at you personally. I was only implying that in the business world dealing with the general public is reflected on this board on a regular basis. If you took this as a personal attack on you. Then I apologize. I have seen people argue back and forth over $20 loaned to them for weeks. I think that is petty. I have seen people b**ch when buying a cue that they didnt like the tip and had to replace it. I think when you post that in a public forum that is petty. I know that not everyone checks their email everyday. I have been accused of avoiding someone when my computer was down for two days. I open my email and POOF...12 emails from the same person (over an 18 hour period) wondering why I havent returned his emails..am I avoiding him..am I hiding something. One of the pitfalls of the internet is the lack of communication in terms of using proper English, the expectation of instant replies and using full descriptions of things. Some is intentional I am sure and some is accidental. And I applaud you if you put the same effort over $5 and $500 dollars. I don't have the energy and the time to fight over $5 very often. I just cant see myself spending days or weeks over it. I UNDERSTAND fighting for principle. Just cant bring myself to do it in every circumstance. I get people EVERY SINGLE DAY stealing from me at my business...EVERY SINGLE DAY. And those are just the ones I catch! I have to choose my fights carefully. I also have to choose my customers carefully. Intentional or not I do not have a single pool player customer that has not stolen from me. Do I ban every one over pocketing chalk? Nope. Do I ban every one when they play pool and deny it? Nope. I would have zero customers if I banned every one of them for the principle of not liking theives. I cannot afford it. I do not envy your problem here with the cue purchase. I have had it happen to me too many times to count. Pool players switching shafts on me when I am not looking before trading the cue in? Cannot count how many times that has happened. Please forgive me if you took my comments personally. I would never attack someone personally over a public forum. I would only contact someone via PM or an actual phone call to settle any disputes. I hope you resolve this to the satisfaction of all involved. :confused: :(
 
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Here's my two cents on the subject...

1) George handled the situation appropriately. He gave the seller several chances to resolve the situation. He then publicly reported facts of his complaint without naming names. After more time had passed without resolution he named names. If I had sold something to George and he had complaints about it, I would be thankful to have the chance to resolve it.

2) Calling a cue with a big dent and wrap damage "mint" is BS. Trying to make excuses like "I didn't notice it" is equally BS. As a seller you must inspect your item before writing the description. Making even lamer excuses like "Hey you still got a good deal" is not fair, because even if it's true, the buyer got LESS of a good deal than he was originally promised. And besides, if it's such a great deal, it would be easy to refund the buyer, get the cue back, and sell it to some other "lucky" AZ member, wouldn't it?

3) AZ has no official feedback system like eBay so we need threads like this. Thanks George. If I may say so George, you took the risk of buying from a "0 feedback seller" on AZ and unfortunately the consequences were similar to what you'd expect taking the same risk on eBay.

That "Who are the honest sellers?" thread is worthy. I haven't had any problems dealing with people who have great reputations already.
 
I also apologize if I came across offensive to you, it was not my intent. I guess I'm just on the defensive a little bit. I understand the points you are making and I don't disagree with most of them.
Your general observations of internet commerce are probably worthy of it's own thread. I just think I reacted the way I did because I don't feel that they applied to this situation. I have no hard feelings and I wish you well.

George
 
shinobi said:
Here's my two cents on the subject...

1) George handled the situation appropriately. He gave the seller several chances to resolve the situation. He then publicly reported facts of his complaint without naming names. After more time had passed without resolution he named names. If I had sold something to George and he had complaints about it, I would be thankful to have the chance to resolve it.

2) Calling a cue with a big dent and wrap damage "mint" is BS. Trying to make excuses like "I didn't notice it" is equally BS. As a seller you must inspect your item before writing the description. Making even lamer excuses like "Hey you still got a good deal" is not fair, because even if it's true, the buyer got LESS of a good deal than he was originally promised. And besides, if it's such a great deal, it would be easy to refund the buyer, get the cue back, and sell it to some other "lucky" AZ member, wouldn't it?

3) AZ has no official feedback system like eBay so we need threads like this. Thanks George. If I may say so George, you took the risk of buying from a "0 feedback seller" on AZ and unfortunately the consequences were similar to what you'd expect taking the same risk on eBay.
Click to expand...

Your two cents are appreciated, As far as the "0 feedback seller" thing goes I figured I'd give him a chance. It wasn't a big ticket item so I figured why not give him the chance to establish himself a little. I remember when I was a 0 feedback guy, I was grateful for the people that gave me a chance.

George
 
boston.mike said:
see someone see my point, rackem is right you got a great deal on a great cue. roll with the punch. i may have dealt with you if you hadn't been an ass. you accused me of what i knew and did not know. who do you think you are? i honestly did not see it, i didnt use it much, i tried it didnt like it so i sold it. sorry about the small imperfection, but i would have helped you if you were more calm in the beginning, also i really dd send you emails when i said i did, there was a 2 day pause in our communication cause i was waiting to hear from you and you were waiting to hear from me. i was not ingoring you. i am a perfect sller and buyer. i have never had a bad feedback and well this seems to be the first. sorry to all who were subject to read this. if i ever happen to sell anything here again, i will do it securely. thanks all anywuestions please pm me. but i doubt anyone will care about this. thanks
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lol I know which side of my 50% rule you fall under.
 
cueandcushion said:
Since I am outside of the transaction I do not know the extent of the damage and cannot give a realistic viewpoint of what is the proper resolution. If you are 100% accurate in your description and it was me..I would not be happy. I do not know if he should have mentioned it needed a new wrap. Probably not. He should have mentioned there was damage to the wrap. Whether it needed a new wrap is in the eye of the owner. My comment about pettiness was not directed at you personally. I was only implying that in the business world dealing with the general public is reflected on this board on a regular basis. If you took this as a personal attack on you. Then I apologize. I have seen people argue back and forth over $20 loaned to them for weeks. I think that is petty. I have seen people b**ch when buying a cue that they didnt like the tip and had to replace it. I think when you post that in a public forum that is petty. I know that not everyone checks their email everyday. I have been accused of avoiding someone when my computer was down for two days. I open my email and POOF...12 emails from the same person (over an 18 hour period) wondering why I havent returned his emails..am I avoiding him..am I hiding something. One of the pitfalls of the internet is the lack of communication in terms of using proper English, the expectation of instant replies and using full descriptions of things. Some is intentional I am sure and some is accidental. And I applaud you if you put the same effort over $5 and $500 dollars. I don't have the energy and the time to fight over $5 very often. I just cant see myself spending days or weeks over it. I UNDERSTAND fighting for principle. Just cant bring myself to do it in every circumstance. I get people EVERY SINGLE DAY stealing from me at my business...EVERY SINGLE DAY. And those are just the ones I catch! I have to choose my fights carefully. I also have to choose my customers carefully. Intentional or not I do not have a single pool player customer that has not stolen from me. Do I ban every one over pocketing chalk? Nope. Do I ban every one when they play pool and deny it? Nope. I would have zero customers if I banned every one of them for the principle of not liking theives. I cannot afford it. I do not envy your problem here with the cue purchase. I have had it happen to me too many times to count. Pool players switching shafts on me when I am not looking before trading the cue in? Cannot count how many times that has happened. Please forgive me if you took my comments personally. I would never attack someone personally over a public forum. I would only contact someone via PM or an actual phone call to settle any disputes. I hope you resolve this to the satisfaction of all involved. :confused: :(
Click to expand...

Whoa, I was on your side until you said that. I've been in your place a few times, bought a great cue from you (Schon) and I never stole a thing. In fact I bought a couple cubes of chalk at your place once for a buck apiece to hold me over until I could order a box on the internet (I like to use my own chalk). The only time I played for free was when I bought the Schon and was offered free table time for that day.

As far as the rest of your post, I would agree. I recently sold a falcon/314 to a guy in person and I probably could have got a little more money for it on this site or e-bay but I've seen too many people make a big deal out of seemingly minor problems.

Al,
St Louis
 
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