Balabushka Cues

[California Kid]

What is the big deal with these cues? Take an old Willie Hoppe or Titliest cue and add some inlays and there you are. I know Paul Newman made them famous in the movies but can anyone say they are on par with a Southwest, or any other of the cues made now. I have a bunch of Hoppe's and they play OK. They were great when I was a kid. Hey $25.00 for a two piece with a leather wrap. How cool was that? After time they were all crooked though. Just wondering.........

 

[Pushout]

Seriously, have you ever played with one?? As I said in another thread, it was the playability that sold them. I've owned two Southwest cues and they didn't play any better than the Balabushka cues I've had the privilege to play with. Also, I never played with a fancy one, just plain four prong with veneers. And I played with them long before The Color of Money. They were players' cues.

 

[Fatboy]

I own around 9 of them, about half of them are among the best hitting cues I have ever played with, and thats a lot of wood over the years. Some of mine and others I have seen are wore down to the finish and re-finished many times, why? because they play that good an get used accordingally, save the movie idea, the movie got the idea from the players 40 years ago.

 

[HollyWood]

Your kidding right?

I can't believe you just insulted Mr. George Balabuska!! why not add Gina (Ernie Gutierrez) Gus (,Szamboti),Red Baker, Tex Zimmerman,Frank Paradise, Eugene Balner(Palmer cues) . up to 1961 these were the best cuemakers. mark

 

[matta]

What is the big deal with these cues? Take an old Willie Hoppe or Titliest cue and add some inlays and there you are. I know Paul Newman made them famous in the movies but can anyone say they are on par with a Southwest, or any other of the cues made now. I have a bunch of Hoppe's and they play OK. They were great when I was a kid. Hey $25.00 for a two piece with a leather wrap. How cool was that? After time they were all crooked though. Just wondering.........

You are going to get lambasted for this thread.

Have you ever seen one of his cues in person? The workmanship is FLAWLESS. His sense of style was impeccable as well.

There is a reason his cues are $10k+. They are that good.

matta

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

You are going to get lambasted for this thread.

Have you ever seen one of his cues in person? The workmanship is FLAWLESS. His sense of style was impeccable as well.

There is a reason his cues are $10k+. They are that good.

matta

I think we're being a little hard on the OP. I don't like the way he tried to make his point, but let's talk about cue construction for a minute. George didn't make his own blanks. They were made by Gus and Burton. I'm not sure if he may have used some Helmstetter blanks as well (historian can correct me on that point). He used a lot of Titleist cues as the base for his cues. Today's cuemaker makes a product MUCH superior to what George put together in his day. Ask Ernie at Ginacue if he makes a better cue now, or back in the 70s. Technology has allowed the cues being produced now to be better from a structural standpoint. Better epoxies, automotive clearcoats, and resin materials like G10 rod weren't available in George's day. He built a damn good cue with the tools that he had. "HIT" is the most subjective thing in pool. I've hit $3k+ cues that hit like a carrot. I've played $20 house cues that I wanted to cut in half and make into my player. No one has the magic touch that can please everyone.

The reason George's cues, as well as Gus, demand high dollar is collectibility. There is a legacy of owning one of the late cuemaker's cues. George was a pioneer in the custom cuemaking world, and people are willing to pay for that. You will never lose money on a Bushka. Or a Szam. But to say they "hit" better is like saying blue is better than orange. It's all up to personal preference.

One reason that George's cues do play well, BTW, is that the vast majority of them have a straight grain maple forearm. No figured woods. He liked straight grain maple due to its playability. A lot of cuemakers have caught onto this. They now core their cues with a straight maple core. Black Boar has been doing this since their start.

 

[xianmacx]

No kidding, just like everyone makes such a stink about those Wright brothers. Their planes sucked, they didn't even have GPS or inflight magazines. Weak I say.

 

[macguy]

Seriously, have you ever played with one?? As I said in another thread, it was the playability that sold them. I've owned two Southwest cues and they didn't play any better than the Balabushka cues I've had the privilege to play with. Also, I never played with a fancy one, just plain four prong with veneers. And I played with them long before The Color of Money. They were players' cues.

It was not playability really, is was a couple of things though. One was Balabushka was one of the few cue makers back then period. Another was where he was located. He was on the east coast and had access to many famous players who began using his cues, not like there was a lot to choose from. When players like Crane and Mosconi use your cue you are going to get a reputation. He also did some inlay work that was pretty good and made some fancy cues for that time. If you put a Balabushka next to a Martin there is not much to compare. Martin made pretty much a plain cue but was a very very good playing cue.

I liked Martin a lot better then Balabushka and I have owned and played with both. Lassiter played with a Martin. Martin also was one of the first with the big screw and flat faced joint. His ideas have survived to this day with most every cue maker making what is a version of the Martin joint. Heck, Palmer made a nice playing cue as did Paradise and were a prevelent back then among players as Balabushka. Today Balabushka are collectables and that accounts for the value. Like any collectable a willing buyer and a willing seller determines the value. No one is paying thousands for a Balabushka because they plan on playing with it.

 

[macguy]

I own around 9 of them, about half of them are among the best hitting cues I have ever played with, and thats a lot of wood over the years. Some of mine and others I have seen are wore down to the finish and re-finished many times, why? because they play that good an get used accordingally, save the movie idea, the movie got the idea from the players 40 years ago.

Don't discount the value added by the movie. I sold a Balabushka I bought for $500.00 around 1980 for $5700.00 not long after the COM came out. Before that I tried to get $1500.00 for it and had no takers.

 

[macguy]

You are going to get lambasted for this thread.

Have you ever seen one of his cues in person? The workmanship is FLAWLESS. His sense of style was impeccable as well.

There is a reason his cues are $10k+. They are that good.

matta

Lets not get carried away. The workmanship was OK. His inlay work was not all that good on a lot of the cues, pretty crude in fact. Some of his designs were horrible with plastic rings and wood colors that didn't even match other parts of the cue. They were good for the time but today much better cues are being built in carports and garages by part time cuemakers all over the country.

 

[ugotactionTX]

Blasphemy!

Blasphemy!

lets not get carried away. The workmanship was ok. His inlay work was not all that good on a lot of the cues, pretty crude in fact. Some of his designs were horrible with plastic rings and wood colors that didn't even match other parts of the cue. They were good for the time but today much better cues are being built in carports and garages by part time cuemakers all over the country.

 

[tucson9ball]

Macguy,
It sounds like you know quite a bit about Balabuska cues. I also heard that in the early 70's you could pick up most of George's cues for $250-$400. Like anything else, when the maker dies, the value goes through the roof.
Look at what happened to all of Michael Jackson's memorabelia. Three months ago it was hard to give them away.
I'm sure when Tim Scruggs or some of the other good cue makers today, pass away, hopefully many years from now, the value of those cues will double over night. It's just the way things go.

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

Like anything else, when the maker dies, the value goes through the roof.
Look at what happened to all of Michael Jackson's memorabelia. Three months ago it was hard to give them away.
I'm sure when Tim Scruggs or some of the other good cue makers today, pass away, hopefully many years from now, the value of those cues will double over night. It's just the way things go.

I'm not so sure of this. Yes, the cues will appreciate some, but not at the rate of Gus or George. I think that Ernie's (Gina) cues would fetch big dollars when he passes on. Jerry Franklin's cues are sought after as well. However, I'm not sure we're going to see the same rise in price that the Balabushkas and Szambotis demand. Inflation has pretty much killed that. I cannot see a cue that Tim charged $5k for going for $10k after he passes on. I think there may be a rise in the price, but there will never be another Szamboti or Balabushka.

 

[matta]

Lets not get carried away. The workmanship was OK. His inlay work was not all that good on a lot of the cues, pretty crude in fact. Some of his designs were horrible with plastic rings and wood colors that didn't even match other parts of the cue. They were good for the time but today much better cues are being built in carports and garages by part time cuemakers all over the country.

Perhaps I over stated myself. I have only seen a limited number but they were all very well executed. I'm sure he has a some duds running around.

Did he not do some of that inlay work with a drill press and a chisel?

Personally, I just like the designs. Today everyone builds cues with the same rings at each joint. They center all of the inlays.

His designs were just ballsy. The fat ring at the A joint. Who cares if it doesn't match anything else in the cue. It looks good. Then the offset inlays in the sleeve. He'd intentionally throw off the symmetry of the sleeve. Then all of the different design using such basic parts. Diamnonds, Dots, Rectangles, etc... I'm fan. Can you tell? Haha

Be honest, it's tough to say much bad about his cues.

I agree TCOM artificially pumped the prices on his cues and they never came back down. At least we know there are people with money still interested in our sport.

 

[Scott Lee]

matta...Did you know that the "fat ring" at the joint was often a buffalo head nickle?

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Perhaps I over stated myself. I have only seen a limited number but they were all very well executed. I'm sure he has a some duds running around.

Did he not do some of that inlay work with a drill press and a chisel?

Personally, I just like the designs. Today everyone builds cues with the same rings at each joint. They center all of the inlays.

His designs were just ballsy. The fat ring at the A joint. Who cares if it doesn't match anything else in the cue. It looks good. Then the offset inlays in the sleeve. He'd intentionally throw off the symmetry of the sleeve. Then all of the different design using such basic parts. Diamnonds, Dots, Rectangles, etc... I'm fan. Can you tell? Haha

Be honest, it's tough to say much bad about his cues.

I agree TCOM artificially pumped the prices on his cues and they never came back down. At least we know there are people with money still interested in our sport.

 

[Scott Lee]

tucson9ball...George didn't die until December of 1975. I got one of his last cues, from him, in Oct. of that year. It was pretty plain, had a leather wrap (fairly unusual for his cues), and two shafts...my cost = $200, and that included one of the old square leather Brunswick cases. I played with that cue for 17 years, and then sold it to the girl that started Atlas Billiard Supply for $4000. They still have my cue in the office safe!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

It sounds like you know quite a bit about Balabuska cues. I also heard that in the early 70's you could pick up most of George's cues for $250-$400.

 

[tduncan]

So when you bought a cue from him, did you tell him how you wanted it to look, or he made it and you were happy just to get one?

 

[skins]

....... "HIT" is the most subjective thing in pool........... But to say they "hit" better is like saying blue is better than orange. It's all up to personal preference............

One reason that George's cues do play well, BTW, is that the vast majority of them have a straight grain maple forearm. No figured woods. He liked straight grain maple due to its playability. A lot of cuemakers have caught onto this. They now core their cues with a straight maple core. Black Boar has been doing this since their start.

imo hit is only subjective to those who don't know what to "feel" for.......as for the second part, straight grain maple is a good wood for cues but it's not not the main reason why GB's cues played well.........his construction techniques, knowledge of combining materials, as well as his close attention to the construction 'details' played the biggest roles.....

 

[manwon]

What is the big deal with these cues? Take an old Willie Hoppe or Titliest cue and add some inlays and there you are. I know Paul Newman made them famous in the movies but can anyone say they are on par with a Southwest, or any other of the cues made now. I have a bunch of Hoppe's and they play OK. They were great when I was a kid. Hey $25.00 for a two piece with a leather wrap. How cool was that? After time they were all crooked though. Just wondering.........

Dude your a Troll, and I can't beleive how many people stepped in shit trying to cross your bridge!!!!!!