Balabushka Question-

I think you could argue that Balabushka's name being referenced in the movie increased the value of the cue among pool and billiard diehards, basically solidifying the name as, "The Cadillac of pool cues" so to speak. I'm sure having Paul Newman utter, "It's a Szamboti" or "It's a Rambow" would have bolstered the names of those cuemakers as well.

But to the non-pool playing public I'm betting that their thoughts were, "ohh that must be the name of some famous pool cue stick thingy maker" and didn't progress much further than that. Kind of like in the Sopranos episode when Christopher brings home a stolen shipment of Jimmy Choo shoes for his girlfriend. I'm sure women watching knew EXACTLY what that meant, while I said to myself, "must be some famous womens' shoe maker....whatever."
 
The primary driver of rising or falling pool cue values (and any other collectible) is the economy; specifically the supply of money directed at investment assets. It can be due to inflation or general prosperity, but no asset (except precious metals in certain circumstances) defies the markets.

Collectibles boomed in the 1970s due to inflation, then crashed in the 1979 recession. They boomed again in the mid-80s (The Reagan Years) then crashed in the 1988 recession. They boomed in the 1990s' technology/productivity boom and crashed when the tech bubble burst. Ditto for 2006-07 when the Fed pumped huge amounts of money into the system trying to stave off a recession...which ended with the burst of the housing bubble.

Sure, a Balabushka might rise more a Gina because it was in a movie...but the movie occured during the 1980s boom. That was the primary driver.
 
bdorman said:
The primary driver of rising or falling pool cue values (and any other collectible) is the economy; specifically the supply of money directed at investment assets. It can be due to inflation or general prosperity, but no asset (except precious metals in certain circumstances) defies the markets.

Collectibles boomed in the 1970s due to inflation, then crashed in the 1979 recession. They boomed again in the mid-80s (The Reagan Years) then crashed in the 1988 recession. They boomed in the 1990s' technology/productivity boom and crashed when the tech bubble burst. Ditto for 2006-07 when the Fed pumped huge amounts of money into the system trying to stave off a recession...which ended with the burst of the housing bubble.

Sure, a Balabushka might rise more a Gina because it was in a movie...but the movie occured during the 1980s boom. That was the primary driver.
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I sound like a broken record but the internet changed everything when it comes to collectables. I mentioned prices going down. What happened with the net was it showed some things were not quite so rare or collectable as was thought.

I used to buy Mccoy pottery. It was rare to find a piece at a thrift store or garage sale. When you found a piece you paid pretty good for it if it was nice.
Same with occupied Japan. I have an attic full of stuff that is almost worthless now.

Those Mccoy pieces that were so rare to find years ago, today right now there is 39000 pieces of Mccoy for sale on ebay. And no takers in most cases.

With the cues unless you traveled or went to tournaments the chances of selling any cue for a decent price locally was like zero years ago. The internet changed all that.
 
macguy said:
I sound like a broken record but the internet changed everything when it comes to collectables. I mentioned prices going down. What happened with the net was it showed some things were not quite so rare or collectable as was thought.

I used to buy Mccoy pottery. It was rare to find a piece at a thrift store or garage sale. When you found a piece you paid pretty good for it if it was nice.
Same with occupied Japan. I have an attic full of stuff that is almost worthless now.

Those Mccoy pieces that were so rare to find years ago, today right now there is 39000 pieces of Mccoy for sale on ebay. And no takers in most cases.

With the cues unless you traveled or went to tournaments the chances of selling any cue for a decent price locally was like zero years ago. The internet changed all that.
Click to expand...

The internet has made buying and selling more efficient, no question about it. But it works both ways. A few years ago I sold half of my guitar collection. If I was limited to Chicago-area "want ads" and word-of-mouth I'd have been lucky to get $1,000 for a guitar that I sold on eBay for $2,000. I got $400 for a ukulele that I probably couldn't have given away locally.

Markets with more buyers and sellers are simply more efficient, i.e. the prices are a better indication of the real supply and demand.

Sorry about your pottery. I'm going through the same thing right now with a lot of my late-mother's ceramic figurines. It seems that the Italian manufacturer discovered internet-selling about 10 years ago and quadrupled its production and flooded the market...kind of like Dale Perry cues. I'll get $400 for pieces that my sister is convinced should sell for $1,500...but, I can just point her to eBay and she can see what the recent sales have gone for.
 
pdcue said:
I couldn't disagree more with this idea - no TCOM there wouldn't be a cue that would bring $5000.

Dale
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Dale,
You are saying TCOM is soley responsible for the market of High End Cues?
And No cue today would bring $5000?

Tom Cruise swinging around a production JOSS cue brought out all the collectors and drove the market on cues. Since any real collector of cues knew it wasn't a Bushka used in the film.

So, Gus Szamboti's reputation of being a legendary cue maker well before TCOM came out didn't drive up his values. When Gus passed and no one else could get one didn't drive the market to where it is today, It was all TCOM?
So, We would all be paying $2000 for an Ivory Handle Gina, and maybe $3000 for an 8 point Szamboti, and $2500 for a loaded Bushka, if not for TCOM?
MANY of us here on the forum have been collecting cues way before the film. I remember buying cues from John Wright in the 80's when he would send me photo's in the mail. I can say John didn't bang his prices after the film came out. Cue market had a great climb in the mid 1990's

*Our economy and the INTERNET have been driving the collectable market*.

I appreciate your thoughts, but would strongly disagree with you.
Best,
Ken
 
pdcue said:
I couldn't disagree more with this idea - no TCOM there wouldn't be a cue that would bring $5000.

Dale
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Three years before Gus Szamboti died...and one year before TCOM came
out...I got a call at a pool hall in Toronto from a man in Texas....
....offering me $5,000 for my GZ.....I was not interested in selling...
...but I asked him how he tracked me down...I didn't know him at all.

The pool grapevine was almost as strong as the Internet
 
Well, they didn't use a real Balabushka in TCOM because it was too valuable...does that answer your question?
 
cfrandy said:
Well, they didn't use a real Balabushka in TCOM because it was too valuable...does that answer your question?
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I am not sure that was a problem. I could have made them a Balabushka copy that would have passed nicely on screen. It was surprising they didn't even bother getting a reproduction they just used a stock Joss. They could have had a copy of the cue Newman used in the Hustler to keep the continuity. Although I think that cue in the Hustler was a Rambow I am not sure. I am sure someone knows.
 
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The MAIN reason why some cues; Szams, Bushkas, Ginas, Petersons, Martins, Searings, Tascarellas, Mobley's, Showmans, Manzino's, Hercek's, Boar's, Schick's, etc..... go up in value is because of their quality V.S. supply... They're the best for a reason and as such people want them which drives the price...

Just because you put something in a movie or advertise the heck out of something wont guarantee it becoming exponentially valuable....

I hope whatever is in the move fetches big $ one day.. that would be somethin'
 
Balabushka's stable....
Crane
Murphy
Balsis
Lassiter
Hopkins
Mizerak
Margo
Liscotti
Martin

Champions, state, world, universe whatever.. all played with Bushka's in their prime.

Other known players that had Bushkas.. Caras, Mosconi, Colavita, Carella and the list goes on and on....

Not to knock anyone.. but you would be hard pressed to see a single custom cuemaker who's clientele reads like this.

I wish I knew who that guy was before TCOM...

JV
 
classiccues said:
Balabushka's stable....
Crane
Murphy
Balsis
Lassiter
Hopkins
Mizerak
Margo
Liscotti
Martin

Champions, state, world, universe whatever.. all played with Bushka's in their prime.

Other known players that had Bushkas.. Caras, Mosconi, Colavita, Carella and the list goes on and on....

Not to knock anyone.. but you would be hard pressed to see a single custom cuemaker who's clientele reads like this.

I wish I knew who that guy was before TCOM...

JV
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Compared to now, there was not that many quality cuemakers back then! Also, pros now endorse the cues they use and are paid to do so. That didn't happen in those days...at least not very often. Let's remember, GB made only about 200 cues in his lifetime. No way could he have kept up with today's demand.
 
cfrandy said:
Compared to now, there was not that many quality cuemakers back then! Also, pros now endorse the cues they use and are paid to do so. That didn't happen in those days...at least not very often. Let's remember, GB made only about 200 cues in his lifetime. No way could he have kept up with today's demand.
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George made in the 1000 range. He was very efficient.
Remember, He didn't make his own blanks.
GB could keep up in todays market to most of the top builders.
From 1959-1975 do the math..
Best,
Ken
 
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cfrandy said:
Compared to now, there was not that many quality cuemakers back then! Also, pros now endorse the cues they use and are paid to do so. That didn't happen in those days...at least not very often. Let's remember, GB made only about 200 cues in his lifetime. No way could he have kept up with today's demand.
Click to expand...

....... Never mind... Too slow
 
macguy said:
They could have had a copy of the cue Newman used in the Hustler to keep the continuity. Although I think that cue in the Hustler was a Rambow I am not sure. I am sure someone knows.
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Cues used in The Hustler were Rambow cues, owened by Willie Mosconi. In most scenes, the one used by Newman had the large ivory buttplate, and the one used by Gleason was the Hoppe type with the ivory ring. A bit inconsistent filming though, in at least one scene, Gleason used a cue with a larger buttplate. But Mosconi was interviewed more than once, and he said they were his cues used in the movie.

The Color of Money was in a more modern era, and I'm sure that's why they promoted a more modern cue at the time, a Balabushka, rather than a Rambow.
 
I am going to chime in here. Balabushka and Gus Szamboti cues change (increase or decrease) in value for a few reasons: 1. Economic factors. 2. Foreign currency imbalances 3. Supply vs Demand (supply has ceased due to their untimely deaths along with decreased supply due to collectors holding onto their cues. 4."Perceived/Future" value of these cues due to items 1, 2 and 3. I firmly believe the "Color of Money" had nothing to do with the past or present value of a Balabushka cue. And had I only known the cues that I paid a few hundred dollars long ago, would be worth so more, I would have bought many more. Regards, Hal
 
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The movie didn't mention Szamboti or SouthWest Cues

and don't you wish you had bought those back then too

I bet you will wish you bought these today,and it
won't take long to regret not buying

In fact there are other cue makers today worth buying
cues from
 
deanoc said:
The movie didn't mention Szamboti or SouthWest Cues

and don't you wish you had bought those back then too

I bet you will wish you bought these today,and it
won't take long to regret not buying

In fact there are other cue makers today worth buying
cues from
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. I did buy cues from both Gus and Barry which I still own; both friends of mine. I had many opportunities to purchase Jerry's cues but I did not care for the hit, however I respected him as a master cue maker. Best Regards, Hal
 
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Hal2 said:
I am going to chime in here. Balabushka and Gus Szamboti cues change (increase or decrease) in value for a few reasons: 1. Economic factors. 2. Foreign currency imbalances 3. Supply vs Demand (supply has ceased due to their untimely deaths along with decreased supply due to collectors holding onto their cues. 4."Perceived/Future" value of these cues due to items 1, 2 and 3. I firmly believe the "Color of Money" had nothing to do with the past or present value of a Balabushka cue. And had I only known the cues that I paid a few hundred dollars long ago, would be worth so more, I would have bought many more. Regards, Hal
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Hal,
We could change around your #3 if you would sell me your Barry's and Gus' you've kept for too long :)
Thanks for chiming in. Lots of good points.
Best,
Ken
 
HighEndCues said:
Hal,
We could change around your #3 if you would sell me your Barry's and Gus' you've kept for too long :)
Thanks for chiming in. Lots of good points.
Best,
Ken
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Sorry Ken, but my son is in line for those cues first😄 Best Regards, Hal
 
macguy said:
I sound like a broken record but the internet changed everything when it comes to collectables. I mentioned prices going down. What happened with the net was it showed some things were not quite so rare or collectable as was thought.

I used to buy Mccoy pottery. It was rare to find a piece at a thrift store or garage sale. When you found a piece you paid pretty good for it if it was nice.
Same with occupied Japan. I have an attic full of stuff that is almost worthless now.

Those Mccoy pieces that were so rare to find years ago, today right now there is 39000 pieces of Mccoy for sale on ebay. And no takers in most cases.

With the cues unless you traveled or went to tournaments the chances of selling any cue for a decent price locally was like zero years ago. The internet changed all that.
Click to expand...

The internet has had an effect, certainly, but I think you are forgetting about timing.

Cue, esp Bushka prices exploded in the early 90s when only hard core geeks and
mad scientist had access to the Internet. It was 1999 when AOL offered 24/7
access for a low monthly fee. that was the opening of the flood gates, so to speak.

Dale
 
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