Balance point

[Guy Manges]

Interesting perspective. I agree that seems like a nice and reasonable range. While I don't love balance points in the lower part of the 18-19" range I do think they're acceptable. I've played a few that were in the 17-18" range and one that was even below 17" and I really disliked those.

I've only ever custom ordered 1 cue and I got pretty specific with my request. 19-19.25oz weight, with a butt around 15oz and shafts around 4oz and a 19.25-19.5" balance point. Not sure if I just got lucky or if it was just that it was pretty typical specs for that type of cue but I got exactly what I wanted (butt 15.1oz, shafts each 4.1oz, balance at 19.4").

Later I bought another cue used by the same builder (Bob Runde) and it's not far off from that at all, shafts are just a little lighter at around 3.8-3.9oz. I now realize that getting that specific is probably not always achievable, especially not as perfectly as what I ended up receiving, and probably not the most reasonable thing to request in a cue build.

Feel lucky he was able to get so close to my request and didn't tell me to look elsewhere and even now, coming up on 8 years later, I still love these two cues I have from him more than any others I've ever tried and use one as my daily player to this day.

Yes in my 75 plus years I would say your specs for the custom cue are close to perfect... We are all individuals, but we all play the same game... Guy

 

[maha]

one third of the way up from the butt end. where you hold it is your choice.

 

[Guy Manges]

The closest thing I had to a mentor was at least in his mid-fifties when he taught me a bit in the early seventies. He was a strong advocate of the closed bridge and keeping the bridging distance very short, under ten inches. I didn't know his speed. He rented Lambert's old poolroom when Lambert opened Greenway. They played for the rent every month and Jessy said he rarely paid any rent!

One thing I put to the test and can say is true about all levels of players up to A-Shortstop level, they don't hit the cue ball nearly as accurately as they think they do with the twelve inch plus open bridges. That is unless they look at the cue ball last. Even bangers hit the cue ball accurately when they looked at their target.

I strongly suspect that almost everyone from B level down could improve their game just by shortening their bridge three or four inches.

Hu

Good words , hope your okay... Guy

 

[7stud]

I strongly suspect that almost everyone from B level down could improve their game just by shortening their bridge three or four inches.

Hu

But with a shorter bridge, you have to swing harder for medium and fast speed shots. Wouldn't swinging harder cause problems with accuracy, e.g. jerking your transition from the backswing to the forward swing? It doesn't seem like a shorter bridge is necessarily better/more accurate than a longer bridge--unless you are hitting all soft shots.

 

[Guy Manges]

I'm a banger, so take what I have to say with the proverbial grain of NaCl.

I have two Adam cues. One has a plastic joint, the other metal. The balance point of the plastic joint cue is about 2" closer to the butt cap than that of the metal one (17" vs 19"). These cues weigh basically the same, within 0.2 ounces of each other.

For me, when holding the metal joint cue standing or walking around with it pre-shot, because its balance point is 2" forward, the whole cue "feels" heavier in my hand, putting more downward pressure on my thumb and index finger. Once down on the shot with the cue in my bridge and my back hand at the grip point, I don't really notice a difference.

I think the whole thing is like Jim Bowie's knife and what thats worth is me... Guy

 

[Guy Manges]

Bob Jewett's post 13 seems to be getting little attention and he points out an important fact. While we "call out" the balance point from the butt end, what matters is distance from the tip.

A typical 58" cue will have a balance point at very close to 19". My personal cue, sixteen ounces and sixty inches, has a balance point at 21" measured from the butt. Measured from the tip that puts the balance point just the same as the common 19" from the butt end.

The balance point doesn't matter a lot until one of two things happens. With it too far back the cue can want to float out of your bridge. Having to apply down pressure with your grip to keep a stick from floating out of your bridge is awkward. I suppose it could be gotten used to but why? Weight very forward again feels awkward. The cue also feels heavier than it really is.

Some of the old masters recommended holding the cue at it's balance point, some four to five inches behind the balance point. I forget who said what. For my personal use, I find just enough to keep the stick from feeling like it wants to float out of the bridge is fine. Never measured, I suspect three to five inches behind the balance point might be a good guess.

That extra two inches of length on my cue comes in handy when I am indulging my bad habit of stretching instead of using the mechanical bridge, no real purpose in normal play. I am 6'-2". However, I find moving my hand back on the cue to be a bad habit unless matched by moving my bridge hand back, another bad habit in my opinion.

Hu

I like to watch WC Feilds... He could bring the cb back and hit himself right between the eyes... Guy, Lord help us all...

 

[ShootingArts]

I like to watch WC Feilds... He could bring the cb back and hit himself right between the eyes... Guy, Lord help us all...

I doubt this is news to you but William Claude Dukenfield was a world class juggler before going into the comedy full time. Command performances before crowned heads of countries and such. Supposedly the best juggler in the world. All of the physical comedy was juggling skills, not camera games that were possible even back then. Well, maybe making fifteen balls with one shot was a little camera magic but 99% of what he did, he did!

Just made another pass through a book on Titanic Thompson. He too was world class as a slight of hand artist. Also traded tricks with Harry Houdini. He found it interesting that they both knew many of the same tricks. Thompson did whatever it took to get the money including a lot of outright cheating but he had also spent countless hours working on proposition bets.

Hu

 

[ShootingArts]

But with a shorter bridge, you have to swing harder for medium and fast speed shots. Wouldn't swinging harder cause problems with accuracy, e.g. jerking your transition from the backswing to the forward swing? It doesn't seem like a shorter bridge is necessarily better/more accurate than a longer bridge--unless you are hitting all soft shots.

That advice was for slower cloth and deader cushions than today's so we had to hit a little harder then than we do now. Never-the-less, a smooth transition wasn't a problem with those short bridges. If you watch Buddy Hall, sometimes the cue tip disappears in his bridge hand!

After a couple decade gap of seldom playing I decided I would learn how to play "right". Probably the worst mistake I ever made as far as pool goes! Been another gap, when I get a chance to pick up a stick I think I'll just hit balls and forget about right and wrong.

Good words , hope your okay... Guy

I am looking up every morning and seeing white ceiling, not green grass. All good here! Hope the same your way.

I think the whole thing is like Jim Bowie's knife and what thats worth is me... Guy

Well, if I am ever pottering around near the old ferry crossing at Natchez and find the one with a high nickel steel blade, that one is damned near priceless!

I will say this, in ten or twelve years of gambling I did just fine playing off the wall, usually with a severely warped cue. Confuses me to spin a CF shaft with nothing to index to. I am going to have to paint a line on mine I think.

Hu

 

[maha]

hu when ty was in jail he practiced throwing a key. you know the old style ones. so he could bet you he could throw it into the lock from across the room.
who wouldnt bet someone on that.

 

[ShootingArts]

hu when ty was in jail he practiced throwing a key. you know the old style ones. so he could bet you he could throw it into the lock from across the room.
who wouldnt bet someone on that.

He said he almost never paid for a hotel room on the road. He had practiced until as you say he could toss the key in a lock. He would bet that he could throw the key into a particular room box behind the counter. Huge compared to a key slot!

Speaking of prop bets, you never bet a trustee or former trustee about throwing coins in a slot of a pay phone.

A friend was collecting some fancy glasses at the state fair. The fancy goblets were on a powered turntable. We were pitching nickles and it didn't take long to get the timing right and he got a case of the goblets. I got a set of the clear ones which I preferred. I broke a few and was going to restock the next year. The glassware was now a dime a throw and you were still pitching the coin. I found out fast it is far harder to control a dime than a nickel!

Reminds me, the book mentioned that Ty loaded up on prizes at a carnival too. Taking candy from a baby for him. I had one good year at the state fair. Football and basketball throws even the softball in the little keg. I was hot on the balls, particularly the footballs. They wouldn't let me win but twice and I usually did that in two throws, three a couple times. The basketballs in those tiny hoops were a little harder but not much.

Hu

 

[MitchAlsup]

What’s your ideal cue balance in inches from butt of cue?

I like to hold the cue in such a way the the tip of the cue is close to 1 oz of downward torque on the fulcrum described by my hand. This is just enough to allow the shaft to touch my bridging fingers without creating friction of the shaft sliding on skin.

Cues with metal but-to-shaft fasteners are invariably too nose-heavy for me.

 

[WobblyStroke]

My current player is 14" so decently back weighted.

Bob made a good point on why he prefers the forward balance (his shorter bridge and gripping forward). A lot of shorter stroke guys prefer front weighted cues. Alex Pagulayan has a very short stroke and talked about this same preference in a recent what's in the bag spot he did...esp for playing 1pocket.

The types of guys who generally prefer back weighted cues are flowy loopy strokes like many Filipinos have. A friend of mine (not Filipino but married a Filipina) told me when he was there last year, just about everyone he played with had a heavy, back-weighted cue. Or maybe they all just fell in love with and copy Efren who for a long time played a 22oz 11.5mm tip setup (almost certainly very back-weighted).

 

[Renegade_56]

So many of us players don't understand the use of balance point in the use of force associated with the cue and pool... Guy...
Thank all for the just and wright meanings...

Well, if for no other reason than keeping the stick from being heavier or lighter in one hand or the other during the shot, eliminating a possible distraction, it's worth paying attention to, if you're paying attention.

 

[Guy Manges]

I doubt this is news to you but William Claude Dukenfield was a world class juggler before going into the comedy full time. Command performances before crowned heads of countries and such. Supposedly the best juggler in the world. All of the physical comedy was juggling skills, not camera games that were possible even back then. Well, maybe making fifteen balls with one shot was a little camera magic but 99% of what he did, he did!

Just made another pass through a book on Titanic Thompson. He too was world class as a slight of hand artist. Also traded tricks with Harry Houdini. He found it interesting that they both knew many of the same tricks. Thompson did whatever it took to get the money including a lot of outright cheating but he had also spent countless hours working on proposition bets.

Hu

Sad I couldn't even remember how to spell WCs name, I think I once played bar pool with one of his family members... Guy

 

[Guy Manges]

That advice was for slower cloth and deader cushions than today's so we had to hit a little harder then than we do now. Never-the-less, a smooth transition wasn't a problem with those short bridges. If you watch Buddy Hall, sometimes the cue tip disappears in his bridge hand!

After a couple decade gap of seldom playing I decided I would learn how to play "right". Probably the worst mistake I ever made as far as pool goes! Been another gap, when I get a chance to pick up a stick I think I'll just hit balls and forget about right and wrong.



I am looking up every morning and seeing white ceiling, not green grass. All good here! Hope the same your way.




Well, if I am ever pottering around near the old ferry crossing at Natchez and find the one with a high nickel steel blade, that one is damned near priceless!

I will say this, in ten or twelve years of gambling I did just fine playing off the wall, usually with a severely warped cue. Confuses me to spin a CF shaft with nothing to index to. I am going to have to paint a line on mine I think.

Hu

I think that I'm at each day is older... Guy, I to think that we can over qualify...

 

[evergruven]

some folks obviously don't mind it much, but to me, balance point is a crucial cue aspect
it's something I notice pretty quick when I'm down on the table with a cue..just the way it is
while I can get along with anything, I feel most at home with a more forward-weighted cue
like bob said, if you're gonna talk about it, you may as well measure from the tip down
everybody's cue is not the same length, so 18" from the butt will not apply to everybody

my current player is 54", and the balance point on it is about 35" from the tip
I actually changed it recently (using lead tape), after some experimentation
I like it so far, but there are other factors involved that don't seem to be discussed much
I've found shaft weight makes a difference on a cue's feel, independently, and re: BP
there is also of course an individual balance point on both a cue's shaft and butt
where you hold your hands, your bridge length, and how you stroke the cue in general
...but I know y'all just wanna shoot pool..so enjoy!!

 

[ShootingArts]

some folks obviously don't mind it much, but to me, balance point is a crucial cue aspect
it's something I notice pretty quick when I'm down on the table with a cue..just the way it is
while I can get along with anything, I feel most at home with a more forward-weighted cue
like bob said, if you're gonna talk about it, you may as well measure from the tip down
everybody's cue is not the same length, so 18" from the butt will not apply to everybody

my current player is 54", and the balance point on it is about 35" from the tip
I actually changed it recently (using lead tape), after some experimentation
I like it so far, but there are other factors involved that don't seem to be discussed much
I've found shaft weight makes a difference on a cue's feel, independently, and re: BP
there is also of course an individual balance point on both a cue's shaft and butt
where you hold your hands, your bridge length, and how you stroke the cue in general
...but I know y'all just wanna shoot pool..so enjoy!!

If I could add up all of the time I have spent in pool halls I am sure it would be years of my life. Most of the rest I wasted! However, the point is that in all of that time I have never heard balance points, tip hardness, aiming technique, or any of the exsotic things we discuss so eagerly on AZB being discussed. Some interesting things discussed and some absolutely wrong beliefs that they were sometimes able to prove on a pool table, but nobody cares about the things that are life or death on AZB.

On the other hand, if we can't be shooting pool talking about it is the next best thing and sometimes a bit of this knowledge is useful!

Hu

 

[evergruven]

If I could add up all of the time I have spent in pool halls I am sure it would be years of my life. Most of the rest I wasted! However, the point is that in all of that time I have never heard balance points, tip hardness, aiming technique, or any of the exsotic things we discuss so eagerly on AZB being discussed. Some interesting things discussed and some absolutely wrong beliefs that they were sometimes able to prove on a pool table, but nobody cares about the things that are life or death on AZB.

On the other hand, if we can't be shooting pool talking about it is the next best thing and sometimes a bit of this knowledge is useful!

Hu

appreciate you, hu..thanks for bringing..*balance* to this place

 

[Guy Manges]

Hu, I think we most all care, especially about ones life and death, Even tho we try to hide it... Pool is a tough guy sport with a feminine game... Like a five hundred pound man petting a two once kiddy... It's a great thing to see, A five hundred pound man that can play a good game of 1p... Guy

 

[Guy Manges]

My current player is 14" so decently back weighted.

Bob made a good point on why he prefers the forward balance (his shorter bridge and gripping forward). A lot of shorter stroke guys prefer front weighted cues. Alex Pagulayan has a very short stroke and talked about this same preference in a recent what's in the bag spot he did...esp for playing 1pocket.

The types of guys who generally prefer back weighted cues are flowy loopy strokes like many Filipinos have. A friend of mine (not Filipino but married a Filipina) told me when he was there last year, just about everyone he played with had a heavy, back-weighted cue. Or maybe they all just fell in love with and copy Efren who for a long time played a 22oz 11.5mm tip setup (almost certainly very back-weighted).

If you grip the cue at the very butt end and aim and play with the cue at or near your chin, wouldn't you want the weight to be in the back of the cue ? Most Phillipines I've watched over the years grip the very back end of the cues... Guy