Ball In Hand On The Money Ball - What To Do?

[CJ Wiley]

I'm with CJ here, both of the ones you pictured should go (= agree with his rule of thumb). 1/8" should be plenty. I've muscled balls in that were almost impossible to tell if they were behind the knuckle, just because I doubted (gut instinct rather than eyesight) they would go in either corner. But one can't position the cue ball at much of an angle (the OB is not supposed to glance off), with CJ there, too. But I'll try them on the super-tight Dynamics (old EPBF standard) where I'm instructing tonight.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

I agree....it makes a big difference in where you position the cue ball as to how much you can force it through the point....and you do have to "muscle" it in with a quick draw stroke. I've made those that look impossible, but you have to stroke it or it won't go.

Where are you in Switzerland David? My sister lives in Geneva.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I'm with CJ here, both of the ones you pictured should go (= agree with his rule of thumb).

Guess that's why they call it a rule of thumb.

By the way, I doubt that shooting these shots with draw can have any effect at such high speed and small distance. Another one of those obsession with reality things.

pj
chgo

 

[subdude1974]

If the ball is inside the point, it can be made in the side. I'd it is outside the point, it is makable in the corner. I would shoot to make the ball. Just gotta go for the win.

 

[acousticsguru]

I agree....it makes a big difference in where you position the cue ball as to how much you can force it through the point....and you do have to "muscle" it in with a quick draw stroke. I've made those that look impossible, but you have to stroke it or it won't go.

Where are you in Switzerland David? My sister lives in Geneva.

Opposite end of the country (not that this means much by American standards, LOL!), northeast corner. Are you ever visiting? My godfather lives in Geneva, it is quite an international city, worth seeing.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

 

[CJ Wiley]

Guess that's why they call it a rule of thumb.

By the way, I doubt that shooting these shots with draw can have any effect at such high speed and small distance. Another one of those obsession with reality things.

pj
chgo

I guess shoot it with follow and see what happens.

 

[acousticsguru]

Guess that's why they call it a rule of thumb.

By the way, I doubt that shooting these shots with draw can have any effect at such high speed and small distance. Another one of those obsession with reality things.

pj
chgo

I'd need a high-speed video to tell why the ball seems to go in fractionally better/more often with hard draw, as contact time is really too short, plus there's the friction between knuckle and OB - it seems highly unlikely that any follow could be transferred onto the OB (some instructors doubt this anyhow), but perhaps the point is merely to make sure one doesn't transfer anything else.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

 

[CJ Wiley]

Switzerland

Opposite end of the country (not that this means much by American standards, LOL!), northeast corner. Are you ever visiting? My godfather lives in Geneva, it is quite an international city, worth seeing.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

I will be visiting sometime in the next 6 months. I've been to Zurich and Belen, before going on a trip through Italy a few years ago. You have a beautiful country that's for sure, I'm looking forward to returning.

CJ Wiley
www.cjwiley.com

 

[pt109]

Guess that's why they call it a rule of thumb.

By the way, I doubt that shooting these shots with draw can have any effect at such high speed and small distance. Another one of those obsession with reality things.

pj
chgo

That is my feeling on using draw on this shot.
Any advantage by using draw is offset by the energy lost that is being
passed on to the object ball.
Same reasoning as breaking, dead-ball passes on the most energy to the
rack because it's going faster.

I HAVE used draw on this shot, however, it was for position.

 

[acousticsguru]

I will be visiting sometime in the next 6 months. I've been to Zurich and Belen, before going on a trip through Italy a few years ago. You have a beautiful country that's for sure, I'm looking forward to returning.

CJ Wiley
www.cjwiley.com

I gather you have a love for fine wine? Another one of my dearest hobbies. Maybe we should meet up?

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I'd need a high-speed video to tell why the ball seems to go in fractionally better/more often with hard draw, as contact time is really too short, plus there's the friction between knuckle and OB - it seems highly unlikely that any follow could be transferred onto the OB (some instructors doubt this anyhow), but perhaps the point is merely to make sure one doesn't transfer anything else.

My reasoning is that the OB moves so fast and over such a short distance (the width of the pocket) that even if you could transfer maximum follow it wouldn't have time to change the OB's path.

pj
chgo

 

[Bob Jewett]

My reasoning is that the OB moves so fast and over such a short distance (the width of the pocket) that even if you could transfer maximum follow it wouldn't have time to change the OB's path.

pj
chgo

For that matter, you could reasonably argue that any follow transferred to the object ball (due to draw on the cue ball) would tend to make the object ball climb up the back of the pocket.

My belief: it doesn't make any difference what spin is on the cue ball if it's hit hard.

 

[PickPocket]

Earlier tonight. 9-ball. Ball in hand on the 9.

No pocket.

The ball is frozen to the pocket point, just far enough inside it to hook it from the corner pockets to left and right, but not far enough to be able to make it in the side pocket.

What to do?

View attachment 242529

I tried to force it past the pocket point by hitting it hard at the angle shown in white. The result is shown in yellow.

Was there a better way?

pj
chgo

instead of the double Kiss, what about rail first, with the correct english to spin the ball into the pocket after contact?

 

[acousticsguru]

The rule of thumb was wrong this time, because the edge of the ball was past the line of the cushion in both positions, but one of them didn't go.

pj
chgo

As promised, tried both last night, about ten times each, no difference as to the exact positioning 1/4" or 1/8" from the knuckle as in your pics - either hit the ball well and made it, or didn't and lucked the 9 in somewhere else, LOL! Made my tennis elbow hurt like hell…

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti