Ball-in-hand placement rules
- Thread starter Matty_8
- Start date
The VNEA does not have a rule on this, that I can find.
If there is no rule, then there is no foul.
Other rule sets, that I have read through, regard the tip or ferrule touching the cue ball as a "shot" and is considered a foul if the cue ball does not an object ball/rail.
I don't mean to sound offensive, but I find this humorous. You're talking about two different rule sets and the latter was modified.
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I have always played the way you mentioned but some leagues and tournaments have quirky rules. For example, Francisco had a foul called on him during a match against Allison Fisher at the IPT King of the Hill 2005 tournament for moving the cue with his cue. Here is the link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAMuX4nNXAA (foul is around 7:40 mark)
I think calling a foul on someone for doing it is ridiculous but it is what it is.
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If the guy has bih, you scratched or committed a table foul.... why the heck would I care what he did... move it the ball with his foot for all I care... he has bih, and I don't much care how he lined up the shot....
Anyone even thinking of calling a "foul" on something like this is the very definition of a pool nit
Anyone even thinking of calling a "foul" on something like this is the very definition of a pool nit
Anyone even thinking of calling a "foul" on something like this is the very definition of a pool nit
Agree 100%.
Ken
I think the only foul when moving the ball is if you hit it with the tip.
It is kind of ridiculous. Often when positioning the cue ball when you are going to use the bridge you have to use your cue shaft to get it accurately where you want it. I think intent is what matters. You have no intent of putting the cue ball in play you are just positioning it..
At the most it could require notifying the other player or ref you are going to position the cue ball with your cue shaft. By touching a cue ball that is not even in play, in fact you can pick it up with your hand if you like, should not be a foul. In fact you can get down on the cue ball and aim taking some strokes and get up and move it again if you like.
The ball is not alive till you hit it with the cue tip.
That may be the controversy, they are claiming a foul as though you were walking around the table during play and bumped a ball with your stick. Maybe a rule where you declare the cue ball to be where you want it and at that point you can't touch it again except with the cue tip.
I would not really call it nitty, because like Golf that has a lot of rules that can be called nitty, things need to be clear. There should be a clear rule on this point.
Suppose say someone places the cue ball and in the act of getting ready to shoot fumbles his cue and it hits the cue ball? As long as the ball didn't touch another ball they will say they were not shooting and it is not a foul. It may or may not be but it should not have to be in question. There should be a clear rule.
I kind of like the idea of declaring the cue ball positioned. You can position it any way you want but when you are done, thats it. Sort of like moving a chess piece, you can not move it back once it is moved even if you see you made a mistake.
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I hate when people call that sh!t.
According to WPA rules:
According to BCAPL rules, 2012-2014:
According to WPA rules:
According to BCAPL rules, 2012-2014:
If you look under the definition of legal stroke, it emphasizes that the tip contact the cue ball with forward motion. I take this to mean that if you pull the cue ball back towards you while you have ball in hand, even if you do it with the tip/ferrule, it's not a foul. But it would be a foul if you pushed it forward with your tip. (Technically it wouldn't be a foul, it would be your shot, and would only be a foul if you fouled in some other way like not contacting one of your own balls and a rail.)
I don't know, I would not consider standing erect and rolling the cue ball this way and that even forward with the shaft or ferrule as you get it in position as a stroke. We all know a stroke when we see it and the intent.
That's what the rules say though.
By the way this is from APA:
Again, it has to be an actual stroke before it's a foul. I'd like to see any league that outright prohibits using the stick/ferrule/tip to move the ball with ball-in-hand. How this urban legend got started I don't know.
And what the hell is it with APA and "double clutch?" I've never heard anyone use that phrase ever, and yet APA repeatedly clarifies double hit by saying it's called a double clutch.
Foul rules
Happened to me in the Tri-State tour I few weeks ago with a new tour player.
I was bringing the ball back to me when He said to me I expected you to call a foul on yourself.
I said I have heard of that rule but nobody enforces it here. I gave him the cue ball back.
Then he did the same thing in the next game he was adjusting it with his feral I said I think that is a foul also.
But I assured him that I would not call a foul & the normal tour player don't call it so I won't.
THEN he conceited the game to me when he scratched on the 8 !!!
So I said see that's why we don't call nonsense foul rules,
Because really if I wanted to I can call 2 game forfeit on you for giving that game plus I would get another, I was on the hill anyway.
Happened to me in the Tri-State tour I few weeks ago with a new tour player.
I was bringing the ball back to me when He said to me I expected you to call a foul on yourself.
I said I have heard of that rule but nobody enforces it here. I gave him the cue ball back.
Then he did the same thing in the next game he was adjusting it with his feral I said I think that is a foul also.
But I assured him that I would not call a foul & the normal tour player don't call it so I won't.
THEN he conceited the game to me when he scratched on the 8 !!!
So I said see that's why we don't call nonsense foul rules,
Because really if I wanted to I can call 2 game forfeit on you for giving that game plus I would get another, I was on the hill anyway.
If anyone wants to see what can happen when you move the cueball with the tip of your cue, watch the SVB vs Alex race to 21 match. It may not be a foul to move the cueball around with the tip/ferrule, but you may decide against it if you have seen that match.
What happened in the match.
I can see the risk, you have to have a steady hand doing it. You could easily set the cue ball in motion or bump it into another ball.
There is a clear rule. Any part of the cuetip that touches the CB is considered legal contact, so if you roll/adjust the CB with your shaft, and the sidewall of the tip touched the CB it would be a foul...since you weren't shooting. Touching/moving the CB with the ferrule is not a foul.
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
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If the guy has bih, you scratched or committed a table foul.... why the heck would I care what he did... move it the ball with his foot for all I care... he has bih, and I don't much care how he lined up the shot....
Anyone even thinking of calling a "foul" on something like this is the very definition of a pool nit
It's not as much fun agreeing with you, RJ....but I agree.
However, when I'm gambling, I'm not too upset to see nitty behavior.
...it usually means that he thinks there is some way of winning....
....other than making balls.
..so when I see the 'sea lawyer' act, I often call my broker and tell him not to sell. :smile:
Scott, this is not accurate. It has to be a forward stroking motion to be a foul. Go side to side with your cue, hitting the side of the tip to cb, is not even remotely close to being a foul in any league... though I'm not 100% for APA, cause who the hell knows what "weird" rule they have on the subject
