Ball Roll-Off From Simonis Cloth

We have a BlueLabel Diamond at our clubhouse. One small area has a constant roll off. Can we assume it's the cloth not an imperfection in the slate.
 
ChrisinNC said:
As suggested, I would purchase and try a few different cueballs to confirm it is not the ball that is out of round. In almost all the videos, the balls seem to be rolling off to the shooters left, so it seems it's possible the table leveling could be tweaked a little bit to improve.

A newly installed or newly covered table should certainly roll better than this table appears to be rolling, and I'd be a little disappointed as well if it was my table. Unless you can see the weave lines in the cloth look like they are off (wavy and crooked), I would not assume it is the cloth causing the problem.
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When you're using real snooker balls, smaller and lighter...the weave of the cloth WILL grain track the balls period! You'll see it happen in the last few inchs of the ball rolling, left and right...that's NOT table level.
 
realkingcobra said:
When you're using real snooker balls, smaller and lighter...the weave of the cloth WILL grain track the balls period! You'll see it happen in the last few inchs of the ball rolling, left and right...that's NOT table level.
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Did you watch the videos. Most of the balls were gradually rolling to the left all the way down the length of the table - particularly the last 1/2 to 1/3 of the table. I don't know enough about 6x12 snooker tables to know if they are 3-piece or 5-piece slate? I assume 5 pieces.
 
ChrisinNC said:
Did you watch the videos. Most of the balls were gradually rolling to the left all the way down the length of the table - particularly the last 1/2 to 1/3 of the table. I don't know enough about 6x12 snooker tables to know if they are 3-piece or 5-piece slate? I assume 5 pieces.
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That's a 10' and the intended target was between the balls on the end rail, yes the cue ball was hitting the ball on either side of the target....but in no way did it start rolling off half way down the table...and still end up between the 2 target balls. The videos are taken from the left side angle, which would make the cue ball look like it's rolling off to the right as you're watching it, but it still ended up hitting somewhere between the 2 target balls. But warch the last 4" inches of the ball roll and you'll see the waver back and forth. If the table was out of level, the ball would have been hitting outside of the two target balls...not between them.
 
Greenthumb said:
Does anyone know about Simonis 760 cloth causing ball roll-off? I heard from a snooker table manufacturer recently that the way Simonis cloth is manufactured creates a certain weave that at slow ball speeds causes ball roll off. Does anyone know about this, or have experience to the contrary?
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Complete nonsense. I've heard stories about the "weave" making balls roll off, but I've never seen it. People are trying to make it look like rocket science to put on pool cloth, but it really isn't. If you know the procedure any idiot can do it and the balls will roll perfectly straight, so long as the table is level, after a short break in.

Snooker cloth has directional nap, which means the roll-off is built into the cloth. Which also means that you have to take the nap into consideration whenever you are slow rolling, especially the white ball. The white ball rolling off will be magnified because only a minor roll before object ball contact will cause the object ball to hit a completely different area. The cloth used on tv has been shaved or shorn down during manufacturing, to minimize the nap effect but it is still there. It's just really hard to see with the naked eye.
 
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realkingcobra said:
That's a 10' and the intended target was between the balls on the end rail, yes the cue ball was hitting the ball on either side of the target....but in no way did it start rolling off half way down the table...and still end up between the 2 target balls. The videos are taken from the left side angle, which would make the cue ball look like it's rolling off to the right as you're watching it, but it still ended up hitting somewhere between the 2 target balls. But warch the last 4" inches of the ball roll and you'll see the waver back and forth. If the table was out of level, the ball would have been hitting outside of the two target balls...not between them.
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If I'm not mistaken, on at least a few of the tapes, the ball hit the center or outer side of the border ball - meaning it rolled off at least 3", assuming at least a roughly 3" gap between balls. I would not think this is an acceptable amount of roll off. I certainly don't see that kind of roll off happening when I view a pro snooker match on youtube.
 
ChrisinNC said:
If I'm not mistaken, on at least a few of the tapes, the ball hit the center or outer side of the border ball - meaning it rolled off at least 3", assuming at least a roughly 3" gap between balls. I would not think this is an acceptable amount of roll off. I certainly don't see that kind of roll off happening when I view a pro snooker match on youtube.
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And you DON'T see them playing on Simonis 760 either do you!!
 
I don't see my last post written on 4/25/18, the day after the table manufacturer's chief fitter came to address our concerns about our new 10' snooker table. Perhaps the post was lost during the recent AZ server problem. After asserting that our ball roll-off observations, following the initial installation in February, 2018, were caused primarily by the Simonis 760 cloth purchased with the table the chief fitter's mission was to disassemble the table, check everything, reassemble per standard practice including covering with Strachan 6811 cloth. Roll-off ball tests that day helped with the final table level adjustments, but the tests were considered inconclusive because the cloth had not been smoothed in the normal way prior to installation. Also, the fitter concurred with us that the End rail was warped, and a new rail ordered and scheduled for delivery in late May, 2018. In the meantime daily play and brushing for a couple of weeks was posited by the fitter as eliminating the fold marks present after his installation, and providing the needed cloth smoothing. We'll take more ball roll-off tests during the next week or so, and again when the fitter returns to install the new End rail. At this stage there is ball roll-off of a ball width or more in several areas, indicating the Strachan 6811 is no better than the Simonis 760 cloth that was initially installed. Perhaps the table was not properly leveled, even by the chief fitter, or possibly the slate is simply not flat, i.e., warped. The five slate sections have non-matching patterns (prominent striations) suggesting they were not cut from the same slab, in contrast to manufacturer's literature. The Bondo filler used during the initial installation between slate sections was removed. No filler between sections is touted in the manufacturer's descriptions, however, plaster of Paris was used by the chief fitter in a couple of places. Our playing experience has not been very satisfactory with the new table so far, but we're hoping for appropriate remedies to be made and a better outcome within a few weeks.
 
Greenthumb said:
... or possibly the slate is simply not flat, i.e., warped. ...
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All slates are warped some, the only question is how warped is it.

Greenthumb said:
No filler between sections is touted in the manufacturer's descriptions, however, plaster of Paris was used by the chief fitter in a couple of places. ...
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I have seen carom slate that was designed for no plaster. You could cut yourself on the square edge. Where on the table did he use plaster?
 
Greenthumb said:
I don't see my last post written on 4/25/18, the day after the table manufacturer's chief fitter came to address our concerns about our new 10' snooker table. Perhaps the post was lost during the recent AZ server problem. After asserting that our ball roll-off observations, following the initial installation in February, 2018, were caused primarily by the Simonis 760 cloth purchased with the table the chief fitter's mission was to disassemble the table, check everything, reassemble per standard practice including covering with Strachan 6811 cloth. Roll-off ball tests that day helped with the final table level adjustments, but the tests were considered inconclusive because the cloth had not been smoothed in the normal way prior to installation. Also, the fitter concurred with us that the End rail was warped, and a new rail ordered and scheduled for delivery in late May, 2018. In the meantime daily play and brushing for a couple of weeks was posited by the fitter as eliminating the fold marks present after his installation, and providing the needed cloth smoothing. We'll take more ball roll-off tests during the next week or so, and again when the fitter returns to install the new End rail. At this stage there is ball roll-off of a ball width or more in several areas, indicating the Strachan 6811 is no better than the Simonis 760 cloth that was initially installed. Perhaps the table was not properly leveled, even by the chief fitter, or possibly the slate is simply not flat, i.e., warped. The five slate sections have non-matching patterns (prominent striations) suggesting they were not cut from the same slab, in contrast to manufacturer's literature. The Bondo filler used during the initial installation between slate sections was removed. No filler between sections is touted in the manufacturer's descriptions, however, plaster of Paris was used by the chief fitter in a couple of places. Our playing experience has not been very satisfactory with the new table so far, but we're hoping for appropriate remedies to be made and a better outcome within a few weeks.
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Plaster is the worst filler there is....LMAO
 
ChrisinNC said:
Did you watch the videos. Most of the balls were gradually rolling to the left all the way down the length of the table - particularly the last 1/2 to 1/3 of the table. I don't know enough about 6x12 snooker tables to know if they are 3-piece or 5-piece slate? I assume 5 pieces.
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This is a 5'x10' Riley
 
I've uploaded four photos to illustrate the slates (5) on our 5 X 10 snooker table, the striations on the slate that don't match from section to section, and the area where plaster of Paris was used by the chief fitter at his visit on 4/24/18. The link to the photos is: https://photos.app.goo.gl/1v7HfFoLictRQaAB8
Thanks to each of you for your comments and questions. They are greatly appreciated.
 
Greenthumb said:
I've uploaded four photos to illustrate the slates (5) on our 5 X 10 snooker table, the striations on the slate that don't match from section to section, and the area where plaster of Paris was used by the chief fitter at his visit on 4/24/18. The link to the photos is: https://photos.app.goo.gl/1v7HfFoLictRQaAB8
Thanks to each of you for your comments and questions. They are greatly appreciated.
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If the manufacturer's info says the table does not require plaster, did the fitter give a reason for using it? Was there a gap between the slates or was there a step in height between the slates?
 
I didn't expect him to be using any filler after he had cleaned away the Bondo carefully. When I noticed the filler type activity I asked about it. He didn't discuss exactly why he had to use it, but pleasantly explained that plaster of Paris is favored by the manufacturer as a filler since it converts to powder rather than particles as does Bondo. He went on to say that his use of plaster of Paris is not an irregularity—he carries it with his other tools and supplies for limited use when needed. However, the manufacturer's literature states, "... uses the finest Italian laser cut, precision engineered slate. We are one of only a few, if not the only manufacturer, to use this prestigious quality slate. No other slate meets these exacting standards.Five pieces of slate cut from one slab to ensure consistency when the slates are laid down. No filler, no joints, no lips. Just one seamless slate play field." I didn't press for more information about why he felt it necessary to use a filler, just decided to include it in my notes. From my first glimpse at the slate with all the striations, and non-matching patterns from section to section, I have had reservations about the quality of slate we received, and this just seemed to confirm another issue with the slate. The manufacturer's description of what they do is commendable, and I hope they see fit to provide that kind of playing surface for our table. Thanks for your insights, comments, and questions.
 
The manufacturer's chief fitter came on 4/24/18, disassembled, checked everything, and reassembled using Strachan 6811 cloth at the insistence of the table manufacturer. Staff had asserted that Simonis 760 has a weave created in the manufacturing process that causes ball roll off. The ball roll tests we performed on 4/24 were unsatisfactory. The fitter recommended that we postpone further tests until we had played on the cloth for a couple of weeks or so which would allow the new cloth to assume its normal properties. We did that, and then made a fairly comprehensive set of ball roll tests and recorded them on video. The videos are available at https://photos.app.goo.gl/fb6E2Rj8w82J8AA53 . Your comments and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
 
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