Ball size testing

[freds]

I'll have to ask my electrical coworkers at the office for sources for fiberglass PCB. That might be a better way to go than the laser. It looks like that is the way the Willy guy did them. He's probably an electrical guy that likes pool.

You're right! I found the booklet that came with his set (but I can't find the gauges themselves, where they hell did they get to?)
Last page has:

Joe Gangi
Gangi Engineering, Potstown PA
willysballbuster@gmail.com

And Google says:
Joseph Gangi - Senior Electrical Design Engineer - LinkedInhttps://www.linkedin.com › joseph-gangi-3635a1125
Pottstown, Pennsylvania, United States · Senior Electrical Design Engineer · Gangi Engineering
Freelance Electronic Design Engineer available for contract work on-site, off-site, full-time, part-time, temporary, project-by-project, very flexible.

 

[Bavafongoul]

Just go get Bankshot Willy’s ball gauges. I’ve measured them using calipers
and they are dead on for size of the opening. Plus there are several to use.

 

[iusedtoberich]

Yeah if he still has them I don’t think I could do better. Maybe equivalent.

 

[Bob Jewett]

Yeah if he still has them I don’t think I could do better. Maybe equivalent.

If he's going to make some more, I think other sizes would be more useful. Currently:

2.255 max allowed by specs
2.250 center of specs
2.245 min allowed by specs
2.242 somewhat below spec

I think 2.242 could go to 2.240 and 2.250 could go to 2.230 to better cover balls in the field.

 

[iusedtoberich]

That looks pretty nice. Is that the aluminum one?
What would be the difference between ABS and PCB?

Functionally they would be the same. ABS is the plastic in your TV remote control. PCB (printed circuit boards) are made of fiberglass. Both are cut by a CNC machine (for this application). I think the hole accuracy would be the same for both. Probably in the range of +/- .001". The accuracy depends on a lot of things. The tool used to cut the holes wears over time. The material can shift inside the machine. The tool is moved with two screws, one in the X direction, one in the Y direction. (same as Etch A Sketch) Those screws move in unison to make a circle. How accurately those screws move will determine how round the hole really is.

The advantage to going with an electronics PCB manufacturing facility, is they have the cost dirt cheap because nearly every product made uses them. That's how a set of 4 gauges were about $12 dollars, including the guy's profit. The other advantage is you can put lettering and graphics on them. This was previously done with silkscreening, although today I believe it is more like an ink-jet printing process.

Another consideration is will the fiberglass scratch the balls? Will the metal ones scratch the balls?

 

[iusedtoberich]

If he's going to make some more, I think other sizes would be more useful. Currently:

2.255 max allowed by specs
2.250 center of specs
2.245 min allowed by specs
2.242 somewhat below spec

I think 2.242 could go to 2.240 and 2.250 could go to 2.230 to better cover balls in the field.

I'm going to order a set today. I think I will order 2.2490, 2.2499, 2.2500, 2.2501, 2.2510. I have a steel ball bearing I paid about $70 years ago that is 2.2500 and very accurately made. I can use that to see how close these are. I suspect the hole might need to be .0001" bigger than the nominal size for the ball to go through. That's how pin gauges are made, they are a hair smaller than the hole size they are testing so they go through.

If they work, I can order a batch at a few relevant sizes. The sizes above would be just for me to test the gauge.

 

[iusedtoberich]

Ok, I ordered 10 to try out. Different sizes, different thicknesses, different materials: steel, aluminum, stainless steel, brass. I also got some with and some without that notch. The company told me they can't control where the laser starts and stops (its automated) so the notch might be useless. If it does not land in the notch, I will have to use a small needle file in that spot to get rid of the nub. I also added 4 holes in the corners for my testing only. They wouldn't be in the real version. I should have them in about 1 week. The laser vendor is in Nevada.

 

[Robotron]

That's amazing!! Definitely interested, and it looks like they may be pretty popular here! Thanks for delving in

 

[Robotron]

I'm going to order a set today. I think I will order 2.2490, 2.2499, 2.2500, 2.2501, 2.2510.

I've had a thought on this. I may be completely wrong, but this should be in metric not imperial?

Looking Aramith and Dynasphere websites they are both manufacturing at 57.2mm

When I convert 2.25" to mm using Google it comes out as 57.15mm.

So, in theory, a 57.2mm ball will never fit through a 2.25" hole as 2.25" is 57.15mm?

Maybe I've missed here, but my thought is that gauges should be measuring in the same format as the manufacturing (metric, mm), and that 2.25" technically is not actually the size of a pool ball.

Is there any logic here, or have I missed something obvious?

 

[garczar]

I've had a thought on this. I may be completely wrong, but this should be in metric not imperial?

Looking Aramith and Dynasphere websites they are both manufacturing at 57.2mm

When I convert 2.25" to mm using Google it comes out as 57.15mm.

So, in theory, a 57.2mm ball will never fit through a 2.25" hole as 2.25" is 57.15mm?

Maybe I've missed here, but my thought is that gauges should be measuring in the same format as the manufacturing (metric, mm), and that 2.25" technically is not actually the size of a pool ball.

Is there any logic here, or have I missed something obvious?

Has pool come to this? Hope i can sleep tonite.

 

[iusedtoberich]

I've had a thought on this. I may be completely wrong, but this should be in metric not imperial?

Looking Aramith and Dynasphere websites they are both manufacturing at 57.2mm

When I convert 2.25" to mm using Google it comes out as 57.15mm.

So, in theory, a 57.2mm ball will never fit through a 2.25" hole as 2.25" is 57.15mm?

Maybe I've missed here, but my thought is that gauges should be measuring in the same format as the manufacturing (metric, mm), and that 2.25" technically is not actually the size of a pool ball.

Is there any logic here, or have I missed something obvious?

It won't matter. You can add as many numbers after the decimal place to get as accurate as you want, regardless if the manufacturing machine was in mm or inches.

The guage should be in the spec of the ball, though, to match the spec. On the carom and snooker sizes, I believe those specs are in mm, so the gauge for them would be in mm.

 

[Robotron]

The guage should be in the spec of the ball, though, to match the spec. On the carom and snooker sizes, I believe those specs are in mm, so the gauge for them would be in mm.

Yes, that is what I was thinking. And Aramith and Dynasphere list all of their specs in mm (57.2mm), they don't use inches in their spec.

And if a pool ball is not actually 2.25" (57.15mm) then a 2.25" may not be the best option as a gauge, or inches at all for that matter?

57.2mm, which is what Aramith and Dynasphere manufacture to, is 2.251969" accordingly to the Google calulator. So if you had a 2.25" gauge the ball should not fit through as it's a hair bigger than the gauge?

Doing a quick Google search for 57.15mm balls, I found Diamond (Korea) listing their ball spec as 57.15mm (which is exactly 2.25"), but Aramith and Dynasphere are at 57.2mm.

Hopefully I'm being helpful being picky. That's my intention anyway, lol!!

 

[iusedtoberich]

Yes, that is what I was thinking. And Aramith and Dynasphere list all of their specs in mm (57.2mm), they don't use inches in their spec.

And if a pool ball is not actually 2.25" (57.15mm) then a 2.25" may not be the best option as a gauge, or inches at all for that matter?

57.2mm, which is what Aramith and Dynasphere manufacture to, is 2.251969" accordingly to the Google calulator. So if you had a 2.25" gauge the ball should not fit through as it's a hair bigger than the gauge?

Doing a quick Google search for 57.15mm balls, I found Diamond (Korea) listing their ball spec as 57.15mm (which is exactly 2.25"), but Aramith and Dynasphere are at 57.2mm.

Hopefully I'm being helpful being picky. That's my intention anyway, lol!!

That's all marketing material written by companies located in countries that use the metric system. I guarantee internally the engineers are working to many more decimal places than what is on the website. Enough that it won't matter if their machines are in mm or inches.

Edit to add: the specs come from the governing body of pool/snooker/carom. Then its up to the equipment manufactures to meet that spec. They can use any equipment they want, and any measuring system they want. As long as at the end of the day they meet the spec set out by the governing body.

 

[garczar]

Ok, I ordered 10 to try out. Different sizes, different thicknesses, different materials: steel, aluminum, stainless steel, brass. I also got some with and some without that notch. The company told me they can't control where the laser starts and stops (its automated) so the notch might be useless. If it does not land in the notch, I will have to use a small needle file in that spot to get rid of the nub. I also added 4 holes in the corners for my testing only. They wouldn't be in the real version. I should have them in about 1 week. The laser vendor is in Nevada.

View attachment 625864

The other holes could b shaft size chekers. Or not.

 

[Robotron]

Edit to add: the specs come from the governing body of pool/snooker/carom. Then its up to the equipment manufactures to meet that spec. They can use any equipment they want, and any measuring system they want. As long as at the end of the day they meet the spec set out by the governing body.

Do the governing bodies for pool state ball size must be 2.25"? If so, Aramith etc are not manufacturing to that spec (but Diamond in Korea are)? Maybe Aramith made the decision to increase the figure by 0.5mm, and Dynaspehere copied them. Not sure why either would do that, but you never know!

If Aramith make the most pool balls worldwide, as they claim, and they manufacture specifically to 57.2mm (rather than 2.25"/57.15mm) then shouldn't that be considered the correct size for a pool ball, and metric the preferred measurement system?

Just because they're in Europe it doesn't mean that metric is inferior to imperial. They must know what they're doing

57.2mm appears not to be 2.25"?

Just seems odd. But may just be me?!!??!??!

 

[garczar]

Do the governing bodies for pool state ball size must be 2.25"? If so, Aramith etc are not manufacturing to that spec (but Diamond in Korea are)? Maybe Aramith made the decision to increase the figure by 0.5mm, and Dynaspehere copied them. Not sure why either would do that, but you never know!

If Aramith make the most pool balls worldwide, as they claim, and they manufacture specifically to 57.2mm (rather than 2.25"/57.15mm) then shouldn't that be considered the correct size for a pool ball, and metric the preferred measurement system?

Just because they're in Europe it doesn't mean that metric is inferior to imperial. They must know what they're doing

57.2mm appears not to be 2.25"?

Just seems odd. But may just be me?!!??!??!

does the word 'pedantic' have a faint ring to it?? please. stop.

 

[Robotron]

Ok, I'm out.

I thought I was being helpful pointing something out that would make a 2.25" gauge inaccurate. Guess I was wrong.

 

[Meucciplayer]

Check this: https://wpapool.com/equipment-specifications/#Balls-and-Ball-Rack Go to 16. According to that site the tolerance is 0.005" or 0.125 mm. But what you are talking about is a lot less than that tolerance - it is 0.05mm. I don't see any tool making pool balls to that spec. I doubt that even NASA works to those specs consistently.

 

[garczar]

Ok, I'm out.

I thought I was being helpful pointing something out that would make a 2.25" gauge inaccurate. Guess I was wrong.

Well, you are right and you're wrong.

 

[stevelomako]

Ok, I'm out.

I thought I was being helpful pointing something out that would make a 2.25" gauge inaccurate. Guess I was wrong.

You’re not wrong.

You’re correct that a gauge should be mm if that’s how the balls are manufactured.


Why are tips in mm’s and not inches?