Balls per inning and APA skill levels

D

donut

Registered
Here is a question for those experienced APA players and league operators. In APA 9-ball, what do you think is the average balls per inning for a player of SL 5, 6, 7, 8, etc.? I ask this because my friend said he thought your SL for 9-ball is your average BPI. I said he's full of crap. There's no way a skill level 8 averages 8 balls per inning, although there might be some super 9's out there who do. My guess is that even an SL 8, who is capable of putting a couple racks together on occasion, averages 4-5 balls per inning. They may not remember all those times they made one ball and got out of line on the next shot, but it happens enough to bring their avg. down.

What do you guys say?
 
I'd argue that the BPI may be closer to the handicap than you might think. The reason I say this is after reading your post it seems you are overlooking the defensive shots. The Equalizer takes these into account when figuring how many balls per inning you're capable of.
 
I don't know the answer to this...


.... however, If I were to guess.... I would say it's BPI - Defensive shots + (some % of a scale factor or something) = skill level.
 
donut said:
There's no way a skill level 8 averages 8 balls per inning, although there might be some super 9's out there who do. My guess is that even an SL 8, who is capable of putting a couple racks together on occasion, averages 4-5 balls per inning.

What do you guys say?
Click to expand...

donut, although there are few SL8's and SL9's (9-ball) in my area, I can tell you with no uncertainty that the majority of SL7's I personally know average more than 4-5 balls per inning (if you do not count having to kick out of a safe shot by one's opponent). Hell, I'm a SL6 and I probably average at least 4-5 balls an inning. Most of my matches involving a SL6 or higher usually average @ 1.5 innings per game. This is with the safeties factored in (IOW, deducting an inning for each two safeties shot in the game by either player).

Maniac
 
Location probably plays some of a factor as well. I am an 8 here in 9 ball (even though I haven't played in years) and I would be willing to bet in other locations I might be a 7, or possibly a 6. I believe part of the ranking system has to do with everyone in the league, not solely on how you shoot or your wins/losses, innings/balls made etc. Any APA LO can correct me if this is wrong.
 
You all forgot a couple major factors:

1. Lunar phase
2. Roundness of the balls
3. Your phone number * 100/Total number of balls pocketed - total number of balls ^ 2
4. Most importantly the color of the magic cap worn by your LO.
 
I have a spreadsheet tracking all my wins/losses/BPI etc from when I became an 8 till when I was raised to a 9. I will post this info tomorrow.

Believe it or not, my balls per inning, after defensive shots were taken into consideration, was closer to 3.5 when I was raised to a 9.

Like another posted mentioned, people only remember the run outs. They forget about breaks where you are hooked (no push in the APA), missed shots, getting out of line etc.
 
Shhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!

NewStroke said:
You all forgot a couple major factors:

1. Lunar phase
2. Roundness of the balls
3. Your phone number * 100/Total number of balls pocketed - total number of balls ^ 2
4. Most importantly the color of the magic cap worn by your LO.
Click to expand...

You better not let this information about the 9 ball APA EQUALIZER equation get out. You will certainly have the red van with people in blue jumpsuits coming to pick you up!!!!!

Please edit your post before they catch you, since they can also use the EQUALIZER to track you via its GPS system, when your LO is wearing their MAGIC CAP.

Hate to see another person put in APA jail for releasing that sensitive information.


Michael
 
BryanBpool said:
I have a spreadsheet tracking all my wins/losses/BPI etc from when I became an 8 till when I was raised to a 9. I will post this info tomorrow.

Believe it or not, my balls per inning, after defensive shots were taken into consideration, was closer to 3.5 when I was raised to a 9.
Click to expand...

I am not surprised by that number. I was just guessing when I said 4-5, even being a little generous. My APA experience is very limited, so that's why I'm asking for more opinions. I only played 9-ball one season. Spent most of the season as a 7 and got bumped to an 8 at nationals. So I don't think it was just that I was in a league with rating inflation.

I admit I never really bothered to learn how defensive shots factor in to the BPI calculation, so I wasn't taking that into account properly. But even with that, I know I wasn't averaging 7-8 balls per inning. I am happy when I get out from the 2. It is not automatic.

Thanks, BryanBpool. Looking forward to seeing your info.
 
i got cheated

JustinHayes said:
I don't know the answer to this...


.... however, If I were to guess.... I would say it's BPI - Defensive shots + (some % of a scale factor or something) = skill level.
Click to expand...

Why do you feel you were cheated? Just wondering.
 
How?

How can you average even 4-5 balls an inning. Sometimes there aren't
4-5 balls on the table when it is your turn?

And what about all those breaks you don't make a ball?

And what about all the games your opponent runs the table on you?
 
donut said:
Here is a question for those experienced APA players and league operators. In APA 9-ball, what do you think is the average balls per inning for a player of SL 5, 6, 7, 8, etc.? I ask this because my friend said he thought your SL for 9-ball is your average BPI. I said he's full of crap. There's no way a skill level 8 averages 8 balls per inning, although there might be some super 9's out there who do. My guess is that even an SL 8, who is capable of putting a couple racks together on occasion, averages 4-5 balls per inning. They may not remember all those times they made one ball and got out of line on the next shot, but it happens enough to bring their avg. down.

What do you guys say?
Click to expand...

A few years ago there was an APA Player out of Maryland who had a website with a lot statistics that he kept for his team. Based on those stats and probably additional information, he came up with a formula for the BPI for each skill level. Unfortunately, i believe the website is no longer available and I have long lost the information that I pulled down from there.

However, if I remember correctly; a 9 averaged 4+ per inning and an 8 averaged around 3.5 - 4.0 balls per inning.

Safes and dry breaks will bring down the average quite a bit if you think about it.
 
Snapshot9 said:
How can you average even 4-5 balls an inning. Sometimes there aren't 4-5 balls on the table when it is your turn?
Click to expand...

You must remember, we are talking AVERAGES here.

If I run 4-5 balls after my break, miss and my opponent runs the table, that is a ZERO inning game. That's 4-5 balls in ZERO innings for me. If he breaks the next rack and makes a few balls, misses, and I make 3-4 balls (or even run out, which obviously increases my average), miss and he runs out, that would be a ONE inning game. So, I've made about 7-9 balls in ONE inning so far. See how this works? Of course sometimes you may not make but a ball or two (or maybe even none), but sometimes you make MORE than 4-5 balls at each trip to the table. It all averages out. It's the 2-3 inning games that keep the ball-per-innings average down. It's the games where there are ZERO innings that really help your average. And in the league area I play in, SL6's and higher have a LOT of zero to one inning games. In APA, safeties do not count as a half-inning.
One of the first thing I check when I get through with my match is see how many innings it took for my opponent and I to make "X" amount of balls. Then I deduct safeties from the inning equation and divide number of balls made by total innings. 4-5 balls per inning is very realistic.

Maniac
 
JDB said:
However, if I remember correctly; a 9 averaged 4+ per inning and an 8 averaged around 3.5 - 4.0 balls per inning.

Safes and dry breaks will bring down the average quite a bit if you think about it.
Click to expand...

If you think about it, you almost have to realize that this is probably outdated information. IMO, overall poolplaying proficiency has improved by leaps-and-bounds over the years. There are simply just a LOT more better players than in times past.

Also, I remeber my Captain of the very first APA team I played on (2006) telling me he read somewhere that the AVERAGE APA player runs three balls each time to the table on average. I'm supposing this is an average from SL1's to SL9's. Seems pretty reasonable to me. So the 4-5 balls-per-inning estimate (for higher skill level players) would be VERY possible if this is true.

Just things to think about.

Maniac
 
Here it is..... This is some deatiled stats from when I was raised to an 8 back in march of last year through November of last year. I got bored with tracking this info after while.

The final column is my balls/inning for my last 10 matches, only calculating wins. Strangely enough, when that number passed 4, I was raised to a 9. Coincidence, maybe.... lol :eek:

Get your magnifying glass out, its kinda tough to read.

pool.jpg
 
BryanBpool said:
Here it is..... This is some deatiled stats from when I was raised to an 8 back in march of last year through November of last year. I got bored with tracking this info after while.

The final column is my balls/inning for my last 10 matches, only calculating wins. Strangely enough, when that number passed 4, I was raised to a 9. Coincidence, maybe.... lol :eek:

Get your magnifying glass out, its kinda tough to read.

View attachment 140490
Click to expand...

Bryan,

That's very good info there (although my eyes are so bad that I can't even read it with a magnifying glass :o). But in the law of averages, we are only looking at statistics of ONE single player in ONE area of the country. Still, I'm betting that this is fairly representative of APA averages and maybe my estimate of my balls-per-inning is a bit overrated.
Thanks for sharing that personal information too, BTW!!! (you just blew your action, dude :D)

Maniac
 
Maniac said:
Bryan,

That's very good info there (although my eyes are so bad that I can't even read it with a magnifying glass :o). But in the law of averages, we are only looking at statistics of ONE single player in ONE area of the country. Still, I'm betting that this is fairly representative of APA averages and maybe my estimate of my balls-per-inning is a bit overrated.
Thanks for sharing that personal information too, BTW!!! (you just blew your action, dude :D)

Maniac
Click to expand...

I always get action lol. I pay off like an ATM and im a glutton for punishment! :-)
 
Have to desagre with one part of your analasys...

Maniac said:
You must remember, we are talking AVERAGES here.

If I run 4-5 balls after my break, miss and my opponent runs the table, that is a ZERO inning game. That's 4-5 balls in ZERO innings for me. If he breaks the next rack and makes a few balls, misses, and I make 3-4 balls (or even run out, which obviously increases my average), miss and he runs out, that would be a ONE inning game. So, I've made about 7-9 balls in ONE inning so far. See how this works? Of course sometimes you may not make but a ball or two (or maybe even none), but sometimes you make MORE than 4-5 balls at each trip to the table. It all averages out. It's the 2-3 inning games that keep the ball-per-innings average down. It's the games where there are ZERO innings that really help your average. And in the league area I play in, SL6's and higher have a LOT of zero to one inning games. In APA, safeties do not count as a half-inning.
One of the first thing I check when I get through with my match is see how many innings it took for my opponent and I to make "X" amount of balls. Then I deduct safeties from the inning equation and divide number of balls made by total innings. 4-5 balls per inning is very realistic.

Maniac
Click to expand...

In your above example you indicate that you miss after making 4-5 balls after the break. That is 'your' portion of an inning. An inning for you is one trip to the table, not two. Having said that, I think 4-5 BPI is a pretty good guess at an average for a SL8.
 
BryanBpool said:
Here it is..... This is some deatiled stats from when I was raised to an 8 back in march of last year through November of last year. I got bored with tracking this info after while.

The final column is my balls/inning for my last 10 matches, only calculating wins. Strangely enough, when that number passed 4, I was raised to a 9. Coincidence, maybe.... lol :eek:

Get your magnifying glass out, its kinda tough to read.

View attachment 140490
Click to expand...


Thanks for posting that detailed info. Damn, nice win percentage. :eek:

JDB said:
A few years ago there was an APA Player out of Maryland who had a website with a lot statistics that he kept for his team. Based on those stats and probably additional information, he came up with a formula for the BPI for each skill level. Unfortunately, i believe the website is no longer available and I have long lost the information that I pulled down from there.

However, if I remember correctly; a 9 averaged 4+ per inning and an 8 averaged around 3.5 - 4.0 balls per inning.

Safes and dry breaks will bring down the average quite a bit if you think about it.
Click to expand...

That seems to be in pretty good agreement with Bryan's stats. Dry breaks is another thing people have selective memory about. They just remember those tables where they made the same two balls on every break, and then conclude that they make a ball %80 of the time. Pros can't do that.
 
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