Banking The CTE Way On A Diamond Table

[SpiderWebComm]

BTW, you are wrong about the first DVD -- I got through the whole thing and posted my review: https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=221106

My review is at post #77.

Lou Figueroa

What happened over the last 9 years with your (at the time) new found philosophy which is this:

Lou:
"Here is the thing: regardless of what I think, Stan invested a lot of time effort and money into the project and I respect that. And frankly, lately I've become ambivalent about the whole CTE thing and have adopted a "live and let live perspective." So even though I bought the DVD -- and then wrote the review -- I wasn't sure that posting it would add any value."

You've gotten worse than ever and never lived up to that statement.

What I did learn was how many members got banned since then and still are. PJ got his PERMANENT LIFE SENTENCE commuted for time served and made his guest appearance in the middle of it.

I'd say it turned out to be a good thing for Stan and the pool playing world from pros to amateurs. It was Stan's first creation with a DVD and you can only learn from it.
The Ford automobiles of today certainly aren't like the Model T in the beginning.

A good number or pros use it, top amateurs, league amateurs, and players all over the world. So whatever was said back then, only made it better.

No stone will be left unturned in the near future. But most of it is already out in his play list at YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=UUW8lTFYIYGN2AjHKN23M-RQ

 

[SpiderWebComm]

I ask if they would agree that pool players have all kinds of different physical traits when it comes to shooting pool.

Then I ask them to visualize any perception they wish. Then I ask: what if you’re taller, shorter, set up low, set up high, stand to the left of the shot v the right, shoot with your cue under your right eye, left eye, or centered under your chin, and what about your footwork, etc.

It doesn’t take them too long to realize that whatever Stan sees cannot possibly be what everyone else sees.

Lou Figueroa

If that's the case, you shouldn't be helping anyone either because others don't fit your body dimensions and perceptions.

Fact is, your criteria above invalidates ALL INSTRUCTORS who teach what to see, how and where to stand, where you hold the cue, how erect or low your head and body is, where the eyes are, where the cue is located, etc.

Every DVD and book that's out there from Mark Wilson, to Tor Lowry, to Randy G.,
to Geno, to CJ Wiley, to Mike Sigel, to Buddy Hall...the list goes on and on because THAT is what they do and how they teach.

Just get the ass on the table and hit a million or billion balls and dig it out of the slate is pretty much what you're claiming because you're you and I'm me.

What Stan is doing and has done is definitely working based on the number or pros and top amateurs in the country who use it very effectively in their careers and playing. More are waiting in the wings for lessons. They come in all different shapes, sizes, weights, heights, left handed, right handed, etc. So your criteria doesn't hold up to success they've had.

 

[lfigueroa]

What happened over the last 9 years with your (at the time) new found philosophy which is this:

Lou:
"Here is the thing: regardless of what I think, Stan invested a lot of time effort and money into the project and I respect that. And frankly, lately I've become ambivalent about the whole CTE thing and have adopted a "live and let live perspective." So even though I bought the DVD -- and then wrote the review -- I wasn't sure that posting it would add any value."

You've gotten worse than ever and never lived up to that statement.

What I did learn was how many members got banned since then and still are. PJ got his PERMANENT LIFE SENTENCE commuted for time served and made his guest appearance in the middle of it.

I'd say it turned out to be a good thing for Stan and the pool playing world from pros to amateurs. It was Stan's first creation with a DVD and you can only learn from it.
The Ford automobiles of today certainly aren't like the Model T in the beginning.

A good number or pros use it, top amateurs, league amateurs, and players all over the world. So whatever was said back then, only made it better.

No stone will be left unturned in the near future. But most of it is already out in his play list at YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=UUW8lTFYIYGN2AjHKN23M-RQ

I do respect the time, effort, and money Stan has put in.

And, I still believe in live and let live. But you don't seem to understand that that means while you guys can do as you wish... so can I.

Lastly, a very small number of pros, *a few* pros claim to use it, while hundreds of pros apparently have no use for it.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

If that's the case, you shouldn't be helping anyone either because others don't fit your body dimensions and perceptions.

Fact is, your criteria above invalidates ALL INSTRUCTORS who teach what to see, how and where to stand, where you hold the cue, how erect or low your head and body is, where the eyes are, where the cue is located, etc.

Every DVD and book that's out there from Mark Wilson, to Tor Lowry, to Randy G.,
to Geno, to CJ Wiley, to Mike Sigel, to Buddy Hall...the list goes on and on because THAT is what they do and how they teach.

Just get the ass on the table and hit a million or billion balls and dig it out of the slate is pretty much what you're claiming because you're you and I'm me.

What Stan is doing and has done is definitely working based on the number or pros and top amateurs in the country who use it very effectively in their careers and playing. More are waiting in the wings for lessons. They come in all different shapes, sizes, weights, heights, left handed, right handed, etc. So your criteria doesn't hold up to success they've had.

What I occasionally teach has nothing to do with perceptions, or degrees of a cut shot, and certainly not sweeps and pivots.

And, as you well know, I'm not a user nor advocate of any aiming system.

What I try to do, when asked, is to help identify those things that will help a player at whatever level they're at and the particular difficulty they might be experiencing. IOWs, what I would say to the guy struggling to run a couple of balls is not what I would say to the guy who can run a rack. Sometimes a guy is just having trouble with a particular shot, which may stem from their execution or perhaps a misunderstanding (or total lack of understanding) of the underlying physics. And so I try to specifically address those shortfalls.

I believe in very tailored instruction and I don't believe in one size fits all. And, if I share something I do, I am careful to caveat it with, "This works for me, your mileage may vary."

Lou Figueroa

 

[SpiderWebComm]

I do respect the time, effort, and money Stan has put in.

And, I still believe in live and let live. But you don't seem to understand that that means while you guys can do as you wish... so can I.

Which is break the forum rules and do and say as you wish because your name is LOU FIGUEROA?

The FORUM RULE: "OK, apparently this needs to be said again. I do not want to see anyone bashing another aiming system in any way.

If you have a positive experience with an aiming system, then feel free to post it. If you want to discuss the merits of an aiming system, then feel free. But for now, I don't want any comparisons as we all know that will just turn into bashing.

Lastly, a very small number of pros, *a few* pros claim to use it, while hundreds of pros apparently have no use for it.

Lou Figueroa

A good bit more than a few but the waiting line for in-person lessons gets longer and longer. You live here in your own little world but AZB isn't the epicenter of pool and what really goes on outside this forum elsewhere and in person. You have no clue but you'd like to think the worst and most negative about it. It's your reality but it isn't the true reality.

You would be correct regarding the majority of pros not having use for it because if they are a pro they want to keep doing what got them there.

But once they start backsliding and hit some deep slumps while getting their asses kicked, they look for the Genie in the bottle again. Especially if it's the Tyler Styers using CTE and others who keep stomping them, making Mosconi Cups, and winning these 100 set marathons getting streamed against other pro players.

In the whole scheme of things, CTE as done by Stan is still in a very young stage of it's life. Hal never took it main stream and didn't want to.

You and another 3 or 4 think you have some kind of strong impact on it's failure and demise but what you bark and growl about does nothing. I think it actually builds curiosity to see what it's about. Your (plural) activities on this forum for the length of time it's been slammed as well as on a daily basis lends itself to some level of insanity. It really is a mental illness.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

What I occasionally teach has nothing to do with perceptions, or degrees of a cut shot, and certainly not sweeps and pivots.

Or fractions or contact points or...or...or... You're also not a professional accredited instructor or pro player.

And, as you well know, I'm not a user nor advocate of any aiming system.

You've always said that but all players MUST send the CB to impact the OB at a very specific spot for it to be pocketed or play a safety. There has to be a method to align the balls for that to happen. It doesn't happen automatically without using the eyes and vision to link it up. A linkage MUST occur and it needs to be very accurate.

What I try to do, when asked, is to help identify those things that will help a player at whatever level they're at and the particular difficulty they might be experiencing. IOWs, what I would say to the guy struggling to run a couple of balls is not what I would say to the guy who can run a rack. Sometimes a guy is just having trouble with a particular shot, which may stem from their execution or perhaps a misunderstanding (or total lack of understanding) of the underlying physics. And so I try to specifically address those shortfalls.

I believe in very tailored instruction and I don't believe in one size fits all. And, if I share something I do, I am careful to caveat it with, "This works for me, your mileage may vary."

Lou Figueroa

So how much do you charge or is it out of the kindness of your heart?

 

[lfigueroa]

A good bit more than a few but the waiting line for in-person lessons gets longer and longer. You live here in your own little world but AZB isn't the epicenter of pool and what really goes on outside this forum elsewhere and in person. You have no clue but you'd like to think the worst and most negative about it. It's your reality but it isn't the true reality.

You would be correct regarding the majority of pros not having use for it because if they are a pro they want to keep doing what got them there.

But once they start backsliding and hit some deep slumps while getting their asses kicked, they look for the Genie in the bottle again. Especially if it's the Tyler Styers using CTE and others who keep stomping them, making Mosconi Cups, and winning these 100 set marathons getting streamed against other pro players.

In the whole scheme of things, CTE as done by Stan is still in a very young stage of it's life. Hal never took it main stream and didn't want to.

You and another 3 or 4 think you have some kind of strong impact on it's failure and demise but what you bark and growl about does nothing. I think it actually builds curiosity to see what it's about. Your (plural) activities on this forum for the length of time it's been slammed as well as on a daily basis lends itself to some level of insanity. It really is a mental illness.

You take any questioning as bashing -- somewhat obviously, only you and a couple of other fervent believers feel this way, taking umbrage at any comment they construe as less than total, fawning support.

As to what is making a splash in the world of pool, it certainly is not this little soiree. But then, a few guys going to any particular instructor doesn't add up to a hill of beans either.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

So how much do you charge or is it out of the kindness of your heart?

I don't recall claiming to have any credentials when it comes to teaching pool.

And I certainly don't advertise instruction. But... at every pool hall I've played at regularly I've had other players -- who have presumably watched me practice or seen me in action or maybe read my stuff on the inter web -- ask for specific help with mechanics, a shot, or just my thoughts on something pool related. I'm always happy to help and don't charge anything.

As to aiming, I don't know how to explain aiming pool shots anymore than I know how to explain aiming a golf swing, tennis shot, or throwing a piece of wadded up paper into a trash can, and I don't attempt to.

Lou Figueroa

 

[SpiderWebComm]

You take any questioning as bashing -- somewhat obviously, only you and a couple of other fervent believers feel this way, taking umbrage at any comment they construe as less than total, fawning support.

I joined here in 2006 and certainly know the difference in questions and bashing. From early on we who were heavily involved in CTE answered ALL questions. But the answers turned into bashing by your side of the aisle. Now, just as then, your side asks the SAME questions over and over and over which have the same answers but the answers don't matter. It's a setup to bash the answers to see how someone can get pissed off enough to cross the line so it can be reported for a ban. That's all it is.

If question REALLY wanted to be answered, just go to Stan's 103 videos and watch them. ALL the answers are right there.

As to what is making a splash in the world of pool, it certainly is not this little soiree. But then, a few guys going to any particular instructor doesn't add up to a hill of beans either.

Lou Figueroa

There are a good number of pro players going to instructors. Even you went to an instructor and raved about it.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

I don't recall claiming to have any credentials when it comes to teaching pool.

And I certainly don't advertise instruction. But... at every pool hall I've played at regularly I've had other players -- who have presumably watched me practice or seen me in action or maybe read my stuff on the inter web -- ask for specific help with mechanics, a shot, or just my thoughts on something pool related. I'm always happy to help and don't charge anything.

All I have to say about that is it's a good thing and kudos to you.

As to aiming, I don't know how to explain aiming pool shots anymore than I know how to explain aiming a golf swing, tennis shot, or throwing a piece of wadded up paper into a trash can, and I don't attempt to.

Lou Figueroa

Seems kind of ironic that you seemingly know so much about CTE that gives you enough knowledge to bash and denigrate the system, those who use it, and those who created and teach it for the last 22 years on public pool forums.

I can almost understand that coming from some of the low lifes who inhabit pool rooms and bars with pool tables across the country. I've seen plenty of them.

But you were a well educated well respected officer in the Air Force for 20 years or so. Usually "class" is associated with the position and representation.

But Jesus Christ Lou, when is enough - enough already? What's the motivation to keep it going like some whacko?

 

[lfigueroa]

There are a good number of pro players going to instructors. Even you went to an instructor and raved about it.

What it is is that you don't like people pointing out inconstencies and flaws in your system.

When those are pointed out and you can't respond with a logical answer, it's bashing. And in lieu of attempting to answer, your standard response is to send people on a snipe hunt, citing endless videos and non-existent answers in decades old posts.

And yes, I've been to instructors, or more exactly: I've taken lessons from world champions and it was all great. But in over a dozen hours there was only one moment during which I was given mechanical advice about something I could do to improve my execution of a particular shot. I tried it and it turns out the champion was spot on.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Seems kind of ironic that you seemingly know so much about CTE that gives you enough knowledge to bash and denigrate the system, those who use it, and those who created and teach it for the last 22 years on public pool forums.

I can almost understand that coming from some of the low lifes who inhabit pool rooms and bars with pool tables across the country. I've seen plenty of them.

But you were a well educated well respected officer in the Air Force for 20 years or so. Usually "class" is associated with the position and representation.

But Jesus Christ Lou, when is enough - enough already? What's the motivation to keep it going like some whacko?

When it suits me I enjoy writing and discussing various aspects of pool.

I've done that going back to RSB and participate in discussions on a wide variety of pool related topics. This is one of the pool related topics I find intriguing. I don't know why, but I do.

Apparently a few other do too.

Lou Figueroa

 

[SpiderWebComm]

What it is is that you don't like people pointing out inconstencies and flaws in your system.

If you're referring to yourself, you already stated you've don't use an aiming system and have never attempted to learn it since you didn't like the original videos when they were first introduced. But here you are attacking any and all users as well as the system.

When those are pointed out and you can't respond with a logical answer, it's bashing. And in lieu of attempting to answer, your standard response is to send people on a snipe hunt, citing endless videos and non-existent answers in decades old posts.

I already told you, we used to give ALL answers years ago and they were disregarded. I did videos, Neil did videos, Gerry Williams did videos, Mohrt did videos and we answered the questions. The answers weren't important, it was then as it is now a way to continue hounding and denigrating us and the system. If the anti-CTE bashers KNEW the system and used it at least to some semblance of proficiency, they would have their own answers.

And yes, I've been to instructors, or more exactly: I've taken lessons from world champions and it was all great. But in over a dozen hours there was only one moment during which I was given mechanical advice about something I could do to improve my execution of a particular shot. I tried it and it turns out the champion was spot on.

Lou Figueroa

Too bad all stories don't have happy endings.

 

[lfigueroa]

Too bad all stories don't have happy endings.

Well, once again, your definition of terms and mine (and most reasonable folks) differ significantly when it comes to terms like attacking and bashing v questioning and just plain having a different opinion.

And you can keep saying it al you want, but alluding to answers supposedly given out like so much Halloween candy is more than dubious. I, as well as a few others here, have followed this saga long enough to know that your claim of being forthcoming with information is not borne out by the record *when it comes to presenting it here in a back-and-forth, civil, logical discussion.*

As to "happy endings," there are only a few here who believe the fairy tale.

Lou Figueroa

 

[SpiderWebComm]

When it suits me I enjoy writing and discussing various aspects of pool.

I can understand that. But when you DO NOT use an aiming system...any aiming system...why bother getting involved with it?

I've done that going back to RSB and participate in discussions on a wide variety of pool related topics.

Before RSB was closed, one could go all the way back through the archives and see just about everything from its inception. I did that.
Yes, you did talk about different aspects of pool and had some excellent posts. Was probably a good time for those who were seeking advice to learn.

But you and PJ were the two ring leaders in 1998-99 blasting CTE and Hal. It has never stopped. Just new names and faces. I don't know which of you is worse.

This is one of the pool related topics I find intriguing. I don't know why, but I do.

Apparently a few other do too.

Lou Figueroa

If you don't use an aiming system as claimed, there's nothing intriguing about the subject. Not contact points, not poololgy, not the SEE system,
not GB, not other fractional aiming systems, and especially not CTE.

That's total bullshit. You never participate in any other aiming system threads and never did. It's only CTE where the war was started and you help continue it.

The intrigue is in the assault, the battle, and who can out last who ONLY with CTE.

Because of Stan sticking to it after Hal died and producing the videos, DVDs, and now the book and TS along with an ever growing number of pro players, top amateur players, some women players, and regular league players...the war is over.

CTE wins and keeps growing with or without you and can't be stopped. You guys are like some of the Japanese soldiers who hid out in the jungles well after WWII was over still thinking there was a war and fighting it in their own minds.

 

[lfigueroa]

If you don't use an aiming system as claimed, there's nothing intriguing about the subject. Not contact points, not poololgy, not the SEE system,
not GB, not other fractional aiming systems, and especially not CTE.

That's total bullshit. You never participate in any other aiming system threads and never did. It's only CTE where the war was started and you help continue it.

The intrigue is in the assault, the battle, and who can out last who ONLY with CTE.

Because of Stan sticking to it after Hal died and producing the videos, DVDs, and now the book and TS along with an ever growing number of pro players, top amateur players, some women players, and regular league players...the war is over.

CTE wins and keeps growing with or without you and can't be stopped. You guys are like some of the Japanese soldiers who hid out in the jungles well after WWII was over still thinking there was a war and fighting it in their own minds.

Why get involved with it?

Why do people watch monster trucks? Tractor pulls? WWE? Personally, I never got sumo wrestling. But all of those have huge following and people probably don't even get why they have an interest, they just do.

And I still do write about a variety of things pool related, you don't have to go back to RSB. If you go back through my posting history here you'll find all kinds of topics I've addressed. In fact, I just posted something in the Main Forum about great 1pocket players.

Now as to CTE taking over the world, lol, you keep telling yourself whatever you need to to get by. For all your claims, the needle hasn't moved much in 20 years.

Lou Figueroa

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Why get involved with it?

Why do people watch monster trucks? Tractor pulls? WWE? Personally, I never got sumo wrestling. But all of those have huge following and people probably don't even get why they have an interest, they just do.

Watching monster trucks, tractor pulls, WWE is one thing. Do you go on forums for that and talk to like minded people or get in arguments about who's the best rider or wrestler? You don't watch the Aiming Forum as a lurker or interested member. You're on the front lines with a bayonet and hand grenades in aiming. And there's only one enemy and target...anything or anybody CTE involved.

And I still do write about a variety of things pool related, you don't have to go back to RSB. If you go back through my posting history here you'll find all kinds of topics I've addressed. In fact, I just posted something in the Main Forum about great 1pocket players.

You should be doing more of that. It's a subject right up your alley, you have a good writing style when you put your mind to it, it's informative and enjoyable to read. You should be spending most of your time on onepocket.org. to begin with since the game is your real passion with like minded people.

Now as to CTE taking over the world, lol, you keep telling yourself whatever you need to to get by. For all your claims, the needle hasn't moved much in 20 years.

Lou Figueroa

I never said CTE is or will be taking over the world. It's now at many different corners of the world, that's a fact. I don't think there's anything in pool that's moved the needle in 20 years, especially in DVDs, books, or instruction.

Compared to other sports activities, pool players for the most part are cheap and don't want to put the time and effort into it to get a lot better. It's an activity.

Maybe the biggest thing that's moved the needle in pool is Diamond pool tables.
I don't even think there are many guys who are willing to put out the bucks for a well made custom cue from a big name cue maker like in years past. It seems to be dying out as well as cue collecting.

 

[lfigueroa]

I never said CTE is or will be taking over the world. It's now at many different corners of the world, that's a fact. I don't think there's anything in pool that's moved the needle in 20 years, especially in DVDs, books, or instruction.

Compared to other sports activities, pool players for the most part are cheap and don't want to put the time and effort into it to get a lot better. It's an activity.

Maybe the biggest thing that's moved the needle in pool is Diamond pool tables.
I don't even think there are many guys who are willing to put out the bucks for a well made custom cue from a big name cue maker like in years past. It seems to be dying out as well as cue collecting.

Well, of course not -- I don't care about monster trucks, tractor pulls, WWE, or even sumo wrestling.

But I care and have an interest in all things pool. You might even be surprised at how many books I have in my library about aiming. I have no bayonets nor hand grenades. Just my fingers typin' away. And to be honest, I get into disagreements all the time with lots of other folks here. (JS breaking the 526, anyone, lol?)

And thank you for the compliment on my writing skills. As to onepocket.org, there is a fundamental problem with me posting there, though I can, and I may or may not post there in the future. I also agree with your assessment -- pool players are, with some exceptions, cheap, often looking to steal (figuratively). But, I have met many wonderful people over the years I've played pool everywhere.

So on the balance, it's all good.

Lou Figueroa

 

[Dan White]

I'm tucking this post here in this thread because apparently it is a hot potato. I inquired about how CTE users might fare while using virtual pool software that forces you to shoot from directly behind the cue rather than from an offset. I still think it is an interesting question but some here would rather have the question removed than to discuss/debate it. Why?

I'm not sure whether the topic was removed for some implied sleight on my part or because of the horrible things Low keeps saying about me. I didn't report it so I have to assume it is the former reason. Tissue paper thin skin around this place.

 

[BeiberLvr]

I'm tucking this post here in this thread because apparently it is a hot potato. I inquired about how CTE users might fare while using virtual pool software that forces you to shoot from directly behind the cue rather than from an offset. I still think it is an interesting question but some here would rather have the question removed than to discuss/debate it. Why?

I'm not sure whether the topic was removed for some implied sleight on my part or because of the horrible things Low keeps saying about me. I didn't report it so I have to assume it is the former reason. Tissue paper thin skin around this place.

No reason for that thread to be taken down.