Banned

[MikeM]

Math

I really would like to see your answer Jason to the question of the difference between league play and a tournament. You are using terminology here that applies to a tournament, ie. prized fund, entry fee, etc..

But, just to make it simple let's look at math from the figures you have provided.

$21,000 total take for the season
$7,700 "prize fund"

$13,300 "profit"

Now, you will admit (I hope) that table time must come out of the profit figure. Your estimate is 18 hours a week. I am very skeptical of that number. Let's make it 27 hours his tables are tied up, though I would bet it's closer to 36 or more that league players are using his tables for the night. At $11 per hour thats $297 per week in table time that league members are getting. Multiply that by 30 and you get $8,910.

Now we're down to $4,390 in profit. Divide that by 30 weeks and you're room owner/league director/league player is getting a whopping $146.33 per week. Hardly worth getting your feathers ruffled over, eh? Toss in a few $3 reams of paper, a couple of $8/hour workers to pay to help out and you are going to be hard pressed to live the high life on, oh say $100 a week.

Even with your numbers for table time it's only a "profit" of $198 a week before any expenses.

If it's a 30 week season, you can really only have 1 1/2 per year. I really don't see a problem here.

I'm guessing that he tried to explain all this to you and you wouldn't listen and he said $*%& it, get out of here I don't need you. Just a guess, but I think I'm not too far off based on your responses to this thread.

Good luck to you.

MM

 

[cigardave]

FWIW, I don't believe that these types of calculations should be using the going hourly rate for table time during league play.

In my experience, league nights are selected/offered by the hall owners/managers because those nights offered are usually the slow nights for the pool hall... and were it not for league play, many of the tables used during league would be sitting idle. As such, I believe that the league should get a discount on table time... and the discount should depend on the individual hall and the night chosen for their league.

 

[Jason Robichaud]

$7700.00 in prize payouts

+

$6000.00 ($20.00 table time per team, per week)

+

$420.00 he added to the pot for his own league play

= $6880.00 BEFORE he spends one solitary cent on any supplies

Let's not even debate the fact that if he hadn't put up hundreds of thousands of dollars to build/buy the business, you wouldn't be playing there. Is he not entitled to a return on his investment????

Since he put thousands of dollars into the business, you wouldn't mind if he double billed your credit card, or charged you double table time. Is that what your are saying? What ever he has to do to make money just because he has a big investment. Give me a break.

For 30 WEEKS of work. Mebbe YOU think you could get by on 2/3 hours worth of work per week, but I'm pretty sure that Scott Lee would argue that pretty heavily, considering he has BEEN THERE, and DONE THAT.

I think Scott would laugh if the operator told him it takes 3 hours a week to run a 10 team event. HE HAS A COMPUTER TO ENTER THE RESULTS AND CALCULATE THE STATS!!!!

However much you WANT the table time to be given to you "for free" Jason, it's not gonna happen.

Charge me table time... I didn't say not to. Just don't charge more than the regular hourly rate just because it is league night.

I have a question... Once BCAPL gets it's $10.00 from every player for the year.. Does it just GIVE away the privilege of playing in it's league system? If so, I would expect that the BCA national championships, or whatever they are called, give away very little other than trophies.

I believe teams and players pay an entry fee... and get this, 1st pays more than the entry... Go figure!!

Most league systems get a cut of the weekly monies.

Hey Jason.. Did you ask about that???

Did I ask about what.... There is no league system. It is a pool room owner holding a BCA league to put customers in his room.

Fatboy... I am sure you as a business man know that there are a lot of hidden costs, that you will never telll the customer about, because 1.It's not their problem, and 2.It's none of their business how you run things, as long as the service/good provided is high quality.

Back to Jason.. And FOR THE RECORD, 10 teams is NOTHING. for the amount of *****ing from people like you, and the stress involved from people complaining about everything under the sun, you couldn't PAY me $7000.00 to run 10 teams. I'd need a lot more teams that that (with more money) to make it worth the time and hassle.

We all can't invoice the government crazy money for doing nothing.

Russ

Do you ever read the post or just disagree with what every posted just to be different? Some are saying he has to make money. Why would I pay more to play in the league than if I just walked in and played with my friends??? league starts at 7pm and is done by 9.30pm. I watch hero's at 10.pm and alway get home in time. So yes I now it doesn't take 4-5 hours to play. It is 2 - 2 1/2 hours. If I play 5 friends it is 11$ per hour divided by 5. So 22$ for 2 hours or $4.40 each for the night.


Tell me, why I would pay $14 for free table time so I can hang with my friends when I can pay and save 9.60$.

 

[Jason Robichaud]

I really would like to see your answer Jason to the question of the difference between league play and a tournament. You are using terminology here that applies to a tournament, ie. prized fund, entry fee, etc..

But, just to make it simple let's look at math from the figures you have provided.

$21,000 total take for the season
$7,700 "prize fund"

$13,300 "profit"

Now, you will admit (I hope) that table time must come out of the profit figure. Your estimate is 18 hours a week. I am very skeptical of that number. Let's make it 27 hours his tables are tied up, though I would bet it's closer to 36 or more that league players are using his tables for the night. At $11 per hour thats $297 per week in table time that league members are getting. Multiply that by 30 and you get $8,910.

Now we're down to $4,390 in profit. Divide that by 30 weeks and you're room owner/league director/league player is getting a whopping $146.33 per week. Hardly worth getting your feathers ruffled over, eh? Toss in a few $3 reams of paper, a couple of $8/hour workers to pay to help out and you are going to be hard pressed to live the high life on, oh say $100 a week.

Even with your numbers for table time it's only a "profit" of $198 a week before any expenses.

If it's a 30 week season, you can really only have 1 1/2 per year. I really don't see a problem here.

I'm guessing that he tried to explain all this to you and you wouldn't listen and he said $*%& it, get out of here I don't need you. Just a guess, but I think I'm not too far off based on your responses to this thread.

Good luck to you.

MM

I know you don't play in my league so not sure why you are trying to guess the hours. I posted how many. I wasn't guessing unlike you. it is 2-2 1/2 hours. One team stays a little later because he only has 9 tables. It start at 7pm and I am home by 10pm. Plus the only people in the room are the league players. Once we leave the place is empty. I compared it to a tournament because it would never happen. People would be shot, beat or something. Just because it is league he hopes people like you will show and pay way over regular rates for a good time. Hookers must love you.

 

[Russ Chewning]

Jason,

I am going to make this my last response, as it doesn't seem to be that the majority of people here who STRONGLY disagree with you are getting through to you.

I am going to show you a formula modeled after similar type formulas in the business world.

Weekly league fee - Compensation for table time - Withholdings for prize money = Owner's Equity

Accusing someone of STEALING when THEY are the sole arbiteur of what that Owner's Equity is, is just plain STUPID.

HE, and HE ALONE is the one with the right to decide what his time spent organizing the league is worth. The ONLY right you have is the right to pay the fee, or NOT pay the fee. There IS NO stealing! There is only the question of whether you all feel you are getting fair value for you entertainment dollar.

If this league did not totally collaspe, then it seems to me most of the people in the league thought things were fair. IT DOES NOT MATTER what people in other areas are getting in their prize funds!! It could be one HELL of a lot easier to keep a poolhall alive in Bumfuk, Alaska, than in Orlando, Florida.

And to answer your question, I am arguing with you because you have absolutely NO business sense, and you are not even TRYING to see any viewpoint other than "Gimmeee Gimmmee Gimmeeee!!!" You want this owner to organize your league, pay out mondo BIG prizes, and you want him to do it for $5.00 an hour!!!

Russ

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

I just got banned from the room I played the BCA league. I said the owner was stealing the prize money by keeping most of it and got a life time ban. guess the owner agreed and didn't want the rest of the league players to find out.

Apparently the owner did not like you blowing the whistle on him.

That is sad that you can no longer play n the crooks room.

Hope for you sake there is another place to play that is not too far to drive, and some of the people you told wake up, and move on also.

 

[Get_A_Grip]

I only have one thing to say, "Bumfuk, Alaska"....LOL!

 

[Fatboy]

$7700.00 in prize payouts

+

$6000.00 ($20.00 table time per team, per week)

+

$420.00 he added to the pot for his own league play

= $6880.00 BEFORE he spends one solitary cent on any supplies

Let's not even debate the fact that if he hadn't put up hundreds of thousands of dollars to build/buy the business, you wouldn't be playing there. Is he not entitled to a return on his investment????

For 30 WEEKS of work. Mebbe YOU think you could get by on 2/3 hours worth of work per week, but I'm pretty sure that Scott Lee would argue that pretty heavily, considering he has BEEN THERE, and DONE THAT.

However much you WANT the table time to be given to you "for free" Jason, it's not gonna happen.

I have a question... Once BCAPL gets it's $10.00 from every player for the year.. Does it just GIVE away the privilege of playing in it's league system? If so, I would expect that the BCA national championships, or whatever they are called, give away very little other than trophies.

Most league systems get a cut of the weekly monies.

Hey Jason.. Did you ask about that???



Fatboy... I am sure you as a business man know that there are a lot of hidden costs, that you will never telll the customer about, because 1.It's not their problem, and 2.It's none of their business how you run things, as long as the service/good provided is high quality.

Back to Jason.. And FOR THE RECORD, 10 teams is NOTHING. for the amount of *****ing from people like you, and the stress involved from people complaining about everything under the sun, you couldn't PAY me $7000.00 to run 10 teams. I'd need a lot more teams that that (with more money) to make it worth the time and hassle.

Russ

Fair enough, I agree 63% just seem to high to me. I was just busting your chops with my post you replied to. Hurry up and get to Vegas bring your family we'll have a great time, I hate the fact you are over there, I heard the other day about some Green Zone bombing-I was in Germany watching TV and told my girl about you and being there, i have told her about before but every time I hear about that shit I think of you.

take care buddy, want me to bring you a Coke with your popcorn?

 

[MikeM]

Table time is still table time...

FWIW, I don't believe that these types of calculations should be using the going hourly rate for table time during league play.

In my experience, league nights are selected/offered by the hall owners/managers because those nights offered are usually the slow nights for the pool hall... and were it not for league play, many of the tables used during league would be sitting idle. As such, I believe that the league should get a discount on table time... and the discount should depend on the individual hall and the night chosen for their league.

It still has value to the players.

Whatever number you use here the owner still ain't making that much money. Certainly not enough to put up with whiny, cheap pool players. Gimme, gimme, gimme. It gets real old.

MM

 

[MikeM]

Everybody loves me!!!

I know you don't play in my league so not sure why you are trying to guess the hours. I posted how many. I wasn't guessing unlike you. it is 2-2 1/2 hours. One team stays a little later because he only has 9 tables. It start at 7pm and I am home by 10pm. Plus the only people in the room are the league players. Once we leave the place is empty. I compared it to a tournament because it would never happen. People would be shot, beat or something. Just because it is league he hopes people like you will show and pay way over regular rates for a good time. Hookers must love you.

So I'm sure hookers do to, though I've never paid one - standard rate or otherwise!!!

I've played in plenty of leagues and there are always teams that show up early and others that stay late. I'm sure if you asked the owner (well not you -you're banned ) he would have a different cost for table time. Amortize that over 30 weeks .....ahh, you're not listening anyway.

MM...Hookers MUST love me!!! That is the nicest thing anyone has ever said to me!!!

 

[sde]

$$$ To BCA National League Office?

I just got banned from the room I played the BCA league. I said the owner was stealing the prize money by keeping most of it and got a life time ban. guess the owner agreed and didn't want the rest of the league players to find out.

I know that APA LO's have to send a $$$ to APA National Office for every player every week. Payable weekly, monthly or whatever I'm not sure, but they do have to pay. That is where the $$$ come form for the National Championship.

I know nothing about the BCA but I would think that there would be a similar arrangement. The $$$ to National COULD BE as much as $2-4 per week per player. I'm only guessing at the amount of $$$.

Steve

 

[Jason Robichaud]

Jason,

I am going to make this my last response, as it doesn't seem to be that the majority of people here who STRONGLY disagree with you are getting through to you.

I am going to show you a formula modeled after similar type formulas in the business world.

Weekly league fee - Compensation for table time - Withholdings for prize money = Owner's Equity

Accusing someone of STEALING when THEY are the sole arbiteur of what that Owner's Equity is, is just plain STUPID.

HE, and HE ALONE is the one with the right to decide what his time spent organizing the league is worth. The ONLY right you have is the right to pay the fee, or NOT pay the fee. There IS NO stealing! There is only the question of whether you all feel you are getting fair value for you entertainment dollar.

If this league did not totally collaspe, then it seems to me most of the people in the league thought things were fair. IT DOES NOT MATTER what people in other areas are getting in their prize funds!! It could be one HELL of a lot easier to keep a poolhall alive in Bumfuk, Alaska, than in Orlando, Florida.

And to answer your question, I am arguing with you because you have absolutely NO business sense, and you are not even TRYING to see any viewpoint other than "Gimmeee Gimmmee Gimmeeee!!!" You want this owner to organize your league, pay out mondo BIG prizes, and you want him to do it for $5.00 an hour!!!

Russ

I started my own business when I was 18 years old. I am 36 now. From what I have seen on here you may have just started your own, if so, talk to me in 18 years. Also on every post I said he should take out money. I think he should make per hour what he is worth. I would gladly pay what he is worth.

I quit the league when I found out about the prize break down. these players are new and didn't realize many leagues don't take that much money. I informed them of what is normal compared to the leagues I have played. I had nothing to gain at this point. I was trying to help these players. You couldn't be more off on what you are saying about me, with Gimmeee, gimmeeee. I he said fine I will pay out 100% I would have got nothing.

He holds/runs weekly tournaments. 20-30 guys could show and play. The fee is $12. $2 goes to table time and 10$ to prizes. Why does the name league allow the same guy to take $9 instead of $2 and not tell anyone the difference. I understand your point, but don't understand why league is so different. Post one more and inlighten me. I build homes etc and know I could easily charge seniors way more because some have lots saved and don't research enough. Just happens I give them better pricing and the best work. Why, because word of mouth is great for business and I don't want to take advantage of someone just because I could!

 

[Smooth23]

Just for some perspective, on my bowling league, the house takes $28,xxx. At $14/week x100 people our league took in $42,000. That means the house takes 66%.
Thats for 4 hours once a week, 20 lanes.

 

[cueandcushion]

Just for some perspective, on my bowling league, the house takes $28,xxx. At $14/week x100 people our league took in $42,000. That means the house takes 66%.
Thats for 4 hours once a week, 20 lanes.

a 30 week long league? wow. My players dont like 18 week long leagues..lol.

Havent bowled in a while but...

$28,000/ 30 weeks= 933.33 per week
933.33/ 100 people = $9.33 per person
$9.33 / 4 hours = $2.33 / hour

What is normal rate for bowling? Just wondering how it compares? What kind of discount is that?

 

[Jason Robichaud]

That bowling rate sounds like a deal from the last time I went bowling. A string was $2.20. You must get more than 1 string an hour during league. Plus those lanes must cost a lot of $$$ to build and operate. I'm guessing way more than a pool table and light per hour. I use to sell chemicals to Bowling alleys for cleaning the lanes and pins and treating them for better play. A lot more involved than a pool room. I am guessing that in this case 66% would be fair to cover cost.

 

[Wolven]

It still has value to the players.

Whatever number you use here the owner still ain't making that much money. Certainly not enough to put up with whiny, cheap pool players. Gimme, gimme, gimme. It gets real old.

MM

Jason is a good guy always willing to share his knowledge with other players of lesser skill. Unlike most strong players he doesn't hustle nor is he money hungry. The fact is that he quit the league on a principle.

There are other strong players in the league who have stated that they will not be back due to either the prizes or team stacking. Others don't care.

As for you, well, you got no clue.

 

[supergreenman]

Solution

Jason, you're more than welcome to pick up and move to Edmonton and play in our league. We are CCS sanctioned and charge $8 a week. $1 of which goes to Administering the league $2 goes to table time and $5 goes to the prize pool.

We are considering upping the fees for the Advanced division so that we can offer a trip to either the Westerns in Calgary or the Nationals in Toronto.

As I said earlier, we don't have any paid staff. Besides from what I understand, it's all the rage these days for New Brunswickers to move to Alberta.

 

[catscradle]

Where I play it is 10/week x 5 players/team * x 23 teams (10 Tuesday x 13 Wednesday) x 21 weeks. No prize money, just chinczy trophies, and a season end dinner. Plus they haven't maintained any equipment for 4 years. In fairness to them they're still losing their shirt.
Consider yourself lucky.

 

[Stew_Pidaso]

I know that APA LO's have to send a $$$ to APA National Office for every player every week. Payable weekly, monthly or whatever I'm not sure, but they do have to pay. That is where the $$$ come form for the National Championship.

I know nothing about the BCA but I would think that there would be a similar arrangement. The $$$ to National COULD BE as much as $2-4 per week per player. I'm only guessing at the amount of $$$.

Steve

The BCA does not collect a weekly fee from the players or LO like the APA does. The only money sent to the league is the once per year league membership fee of $10. The prize money for the tournaments comes from the team entry fees. For the nationals, it is $125/team for the trophy division which only plays for trophies. $250/team for Open division and $500/team for Master's division.

 

[TWOFORPOOL]

stealing the prize money

Just a couple of questions?

How much did you get back from the theater the last time you saw a movie?

How much money did you get back from your landlord/mortage lender?

How much did you give back to your employer from your paycheck?

It doesn't matter how much the league operator makes for running a successful business. I play in an APA league where there are 600+ teams and I hope the league operator is making at least 200,000.00 profit per year for doing so.

Why is it that alot of poolplayers feel that somebody owes them something? The bottom line is:

If you don't like the adminision fee DON'T PLAY! To say the operator is stealing is a complete joke!