I think that is so lacking in today's game. It changed from the power of Buddy, Tony, Johnny, Coltrain, to pattern racking and templates.
Bar Box monsters
- Thread starter whiteoak
- Start date
I think bar table 8ball is a honest game. Play take what you make , ball in hand on fouls. The traffic and clusters are what make the game interesting. Yes tighter pockets like the Diamonds are better then the old bucket Valleys. The newer Valleys arent terrible.
8 ball on a tight bar table with BIH in the kitchen ''on a scratch'' is the real game, closest in skill level to one pocket. I know in the China area they play 8 ball on a 5x10? type snooker table, but not being able to run a ball down the rail and pocket it, dramatically slows & changes the game to ''another game''. But like said before, Matlock was a great 3 cushion player, and the CUE balls used in the early box days, were near identical to the Big Heavy cue ball. I'm pretty sure they were the same diameter as billiard balls.
Chinese 8ball is played on a 4.5x9 snooker table. Tough game but slow. Kinda boring to watch imo.
I went straight to Tournaments in Commerce City after work for a tournament and he was there. I think they opened at 4 pm and we were both there about 4:30. Nobody there but us and the owner. He asked me to play some and we played for $5/game. We were breaking even but he wasn't really into it at all. Walking around talking to people as they showed up. Shooting balls hard but not leaving me any shot. Even I could see he was just killing time until people showed up. After people started showing up he told me he really wanted to play for more money and asked if I knew anybody that would bet high. I went to Davey Gomez who almost never turned down action on a barbox. Davey looked at him. Watched him shoot one shot and said: "I don't know. He looks pretty good." And wouldn't play him. lol. Danny Medina showed up a little while later - called by someone I'm sure. And they couldn't agree to a game and never played that night. I'm sure Davey knew him and didn't want to directly knock his action but since we were friends he tried to give me a clue.
Later, one of the old timers asked me if I ever figured out who I was messing with. I just said I knew he played good.
1eyedhustler
Member
Another way of defining tortured is when you send them home broke and that was the case when I beat Rod.Defining 'tortured' is like de-ciphering ' hits a ton' in cue sales ads. Some people will say it after they only win by a game. Pool players like to exaggerate.
1eyedhustler
Member
I ch
In the late 87 we had a chance to make a 20k score in Baton Rouge off a car dealer there who stake horsed the local best. We had the guy down 6k and Chino had a bottle hid under a table without my knowledge and he started to waste and lost it all back.. That is when I departed with him and continued on my own..
In 99 I staked him 5K 1 hole sets against Platis in Lynwood, WA. Chino was on the hill 4 - 3 with a spot shot to take it down. On the rail was Zimmerman stoned cold drunk trying shark him and just as he pulled the trigger Z drops his drink on the floor which caused Chino to jaw the case ball. Platis needs 2 and does. Next is Platis break who makes a ball on the break and commences to put a 4 on Chino who breaks down and loses the set.. The agreement was to play until someone wins 10k but Platis quits one set winner.. So next we play the local pro(better than Z can't remember his name) and Chino wins 5-3(break even) and everyone pulls up.. Platis won't matchup with me playing 9-ball so a wasted trip.lol. In 99 I was doing a table in Spokane and Chino was there and I staked him for 500 sets. He got up 3 sets got wasted again and lost it back and that was the last time I ever staked him.. However, in 87 we split up over 40K in less than a month throughout the south.. When he had both eyes and wasn't so heavy on the sauce only a handful could beat him. When he had both eyes it was said he could beat Raphael Martinez and Jose Parica from the Philippines.. It is a true story he beat Matlock in Chicago in the early 80's.. All matches were bar boxes!
He was probably drunk and when he was he could be a real AH.. He was probably trying to get you riled up to get you to bet higher.
In the late 87 we had a chance to make a 20k score in Baton Rouge off a car dealer there who stake horsed the local best. We had the guy down 6k and Chino had a bottle hid under a table without my knowledge and he started to waste and lost it all back.. That is when I departed with him and continued on my own..
In 99 I staked him 5K 1 hole sets against Platis in Lynwood, WA. Chino was on the hill 4 - 3 with a spot shot to take it down. On the rail was Zimmerman stoned cold drunk trying shark him and just as he pulled the trigger Z drops his drink on the floor which caused Chino to jaw the case ball. Platis needs 2 and does. Next is Platis break who makes a ball on the break and commences to put a 4 on Chino who breaks down and loses the set.. The agreement was to play until someone wins 10k but Platis quits one set winner.. So next we play the local pro(better than Z can't remember his name) and Chino wins 5-3(break even) and everyone pulls up.. Platis won't matchup with me playing 9-ball so a wasted trip.lol. In 99 I was doing a table in Spokane and Chino was there and I staked him for 500 sets. He got up 3 sets got wasted again and lost it back and that was the last time I ever staked him.. However, in 87 we split up over 40K in less than a month throughout the south.. When he had both eyes and wasn't so heavy on the sauce only a handful could beat him. When he had both eyes it was said he could beat Raphael Martinez and Jose Parica from the Philippines.. It is a true story he beat Matlock in Chicago in the early 80's.. All matches were bar boxes!
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1eyedhustler
Member
I was pattern racking in the 70's and 80's depending on how and what side of the table my opponent broke from.. But as you said almost all players including pros did random 9 ball racks during those days.. I taught Chino how to pattern rack in 87..
1eyedhustler
Member
In 86 in Memphis I challenged Matlock to 40 point 3 Cushion for 1K a game. He made a couple phone calls and talked to Don Brink in Raytown whom I had badly beaten in the ABA West coast Championships and I finished 3rd. I also beat Allen Gilbert, and Harry Sims both US Champions but lost to Rick Bryck(winner) and to lose the tournament lost to Khlil Diab(his home room) in the one hole, 40-39. Had I won that the Championship was mine because Rick Bryck and I would had 1 lose each but I had more total points than him.. Anyway, Dave came back and asked for a spot so we never matched up.. My tournament high run was 17 and have had personal high runs of 21 twice and a 23.. I believe Matlock's high run from what I was told was 16 in practice..
The great players of today have high runs over 25 and even over 30 mainly because the equipment has greatly improved as well as position play..
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Once again, and you are?
No one really knew how good he played back then, just that he was a good hustler and his best game was on a bar table. I seriously doubt he could beat Parica on a big table back then. No one could!
After China/Vera Cruz lost his eye his game was never the same. He wasn't a world beater any more, just another shortstop looking to find a sucker. He went from being a high line gambler to a $2 scuffler. Sorry, but that's the reality.
Played Rafa twice, we both were unable to beat the other. Once till 4:30AM. Since then, we've always been good friends.
1eyedhustler
Member
He beat both Parica and Martinez on a bar box when he had both eyes. I haven't seen him in over 15 years now so I have no idea as to his play now but I'm sure with the amount of alcohol the guy consumes his brain is probably jello by now as well as his nerves.. I'm 74 now and I believe he is about 67 or 68 so as most of us old farts, he has probably been by the wayside for some time..
1eyedhustler
Member
In 03 At my 45 table room(Cue's Billiards), Portland,OR I donated 500 to Raffa playing 3 Cushion. I hadn't practiced in over 6 months because I was so busy with the room and table sales and moves. He plays well but I know for a fact had I been tournament ready I would had robbed him, but being a road player myself and knowing he made the trip from CA to play me I felt it was a courtesy to feed the guy a few bucks even though I knew I was not primed to play.. Anyway at that time 500 was only 20% of my rooms daily take. Chips..LOL..
He wanted to play 30 pointers for 500 but knowing I probably had little chance I played him 15 pointers for 100 game.. I only won one game because I couldn't find my 3C stroke. I had been playing a little one pocket during that time but no 3C..
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1eyedhustler
Member
And who are you to be asking me?
When Rafael and I played....it was $100 a rack 9 ball, 2 shot roll out.
He was one of only two players in my times, that I could not beat, and he also could not beat me.
It's an unusual situation to be in with another, Me and Rafa would play for at least 7 to ten hours straight.
We both had 1 solid area of play that was better than thee other, but they offset one another in the payout. Money talks!
I'm not the one who is new making all these claims, I've been around here awhile.
1eyedhustler
Member
Find a 86 through 89 BCA rule book and you will find my name in the back under 3 cushion ABA Western Division Championships.. A little challenge for ya..
No time to play your games. You don't want to identify yourself and make claims of how great you were, how you tourtured people, etc. Good for you.