I read people say jesse bowman,dave matlock, etc.... are bar box specialist. what skills are these people using that big table players aren't adapting as well as these guys to the bar table?
bar box specialist
- Thread starter oldschool2791
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There are a lot of players out there as good as JB and DM on the bar table. The reason for all the hype is because the bar table is what they are known for, both great players but more so on the bar table than big table....I could be wrong though.
Generally it has to do with breakouts and dealing with clusters.
That and they miss a little bit less often then players like myself...ok maybe a decent amount less often.
Sigh....a lot less often :frown:
well I seen a video of svb running 8 straight racks on a bar table on earl . I know svb is a monster but he is a monster on the big boards also . I watch johnny archer music city bar box vs larry nevel sometimes . I like how simple he keeps the patterns.
It is different today, a lot of players play good on bar tables. The reason is todays tables play very well and you use a different cue ball. Years ago bar tables were nightmares for big table players. Bad rails, balls would jump out of pockets, they rolled off and forget about the cueball.
Some had giant cue balls that if you didn't have experience with them you were reduced to a beginner. At one point in the 70's I played only on bar tables, the worse the table the better I liked it. They were traps. Unless it was another bar table player (Specialist) who I knew I was not afraid to play anyone.
It is completely different today in my opinion. A bar table player does not have the edge they once had, the equipment is too good..
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That's my understanding. SVB is a monster barbox player and so is J. Bergman.
Anyone who says otherwise should look at the past few years of the top 10 in the USBTC's.
You just named two of the best American players ever who also happen to both be known as monster bar box players.
As for Jesse, his game is so fast and fluid that maybe it just doesn't translate as well for big table rotation games. He is fun to watch though, one of the few people I can watch play something other than one pocket and actually enjoy watching them.
Did my phone just ring?
Excellent write-up, macguy.
I like your take on the bar-box factors that differentiated the better players of yore.
You compartmentalized them well. I learned something after reading your post.
:wink:
All the top players are or could be with in days, monsters on a BB. I have to laugh, it's just like 14.1 and 1-hole. "Oh, you got to have the moves to be tops in one-pocket. Of course almost all the big one pocket tournaments for the last few years have been won by top pros with little 1-hole background.
All the top pros that that play 14.1 a few times a year do very well in 14.1 tournaments and most can run a few 100 and 200's and have. Johnnyt
All the top pros that that play 14.1 a few times a year do very well in 14.1 tournaments and most can run a few 100 and 200's and have. Johnnyt
I agree. With the slow nap cloth, you had to shoot firmer and kill the ball a lot, due to rolling off. All the different cue balls back then and now most are red circle on the bar boxes. I remember big heavy cue balls that you couldn't even draw. Now, its a finesse game, with simonis cloth and tables that roll straight, which leads to a breaking contest among good players.
Today they are just smaller tables with no real difference beyond that. To give you an example what it used to be like. I saw Ronnie Sypher murder Billy Incardona in a bar table and the same or next night I don't remember, Incardona beat Ronnie with the seven back at the pool room.
Those bar tables back then were not even meant for any serious competition, they were just about viewed as something like a pinball machine and most not very well built. They became so prevalent, you could hardly go anywhere and not find a bar table and people were now gambling on them.
As a result big table players out of necessity would go to the bars and hustle. This was fine and easy money because they are playing for the most part non-players. But if they had to play a real pool player who specialized in the bar tables they were in real trouble.
I have no doubt any top player who took the time to get used to the tables would have no problem playing good but they didn't really care. To them this was trash pool anyway and they were just as happy doing a little stealing now and then with little effort.
For them is was not fun, playing in places with no light to speak of, dirty tables, roll-off's, loud music, people bumping into you and all the rest that you may encounter. It was just something to do to make money. I think the bar table specialist as we used to know him doesn't really exist anymore.
I will tell you a funny story. Mike Sigel came into a popular bar that was known for a lot of money play. He starts playing a guy who is in work clothes covered with plaster. I remember this like it was yesterday. The first game the guy scratched on the 9 ball. Another ball is spotted for the nine and Sigel takes his ball in hand behind the line.
He gets down and shoots the ball into the end rail about 6 inches from the pocket. The giant cue ball didn't cut the ball hardly at all and pushed it into the end rail. For Sigel it didn't get any better. They played for like an hour and were pretty much even when the guy had to go and quit. I forgot, almost right away Sigel went to his car to get his Joss but it didn't help.
Sigel would not play any more he wanted to give anyone who would go to a pool room all kinds of weight for what ever they wanted to play for. He had offers to play more on the bar table but he made some rude comments and left. Truth is, there were half a dozen people in there he would not have been able to beat.
I saw this same thing with any number of champions with about the same result. The edge the bar table specialist had was just experience and knowing how to play on the tables. To be honest, why would any big table player even want to put in the time to learn, it was just trash pool.
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I watch a lot of the bar table tournaments on youtube . The way the players let the cue ball go in 9 ball I think a small table player could still could fiind an advantage against some really tuff 9 ball players in 8 ball because of the clutter.i could be wrong but in 9 ball small table they just play for an area.
It's always Diamond tables, huh?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Je8wK3wcIbU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEYmX_eQqK8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWVrK0AlOms
Brand of table not withstanding, I watched some of each video and the tables all played nice. Nice cloth, nice balls, seem to roll good. The cueball comes off the rails in a normal predictable way. I watched for a bank and there was nothing out of the ordinary. I don't see where one player would have any great advantage over another on those tables. A little practice and they would be good to go. These table have come a long way in the last 40 years.
we called them Mud balls back in the day when is the last time you saw players use that cue ball
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