BAR RULES and DIRTY POOL – Why Official Rules are Important

[ShootingArts]

dont go barefoot out on the farm

That is how you find out if somebody was really raised on a farm. They take their shoes off to keep them nice and don't even look down when the fresh cowshit squeezes between their toes!

However, at this point some bystander says “that’s the rule wherever you go in this country” - and at this point I just about lost a gasket.

I had to laugh, your problem was that you didn't know what "country" meant. It is a shortening of "this part of the country" and they may be entirely correct or they may only play in places where the rules suit them.

There is another issue too, Lake Charles isn't South Louisiana. Don't get confused by a map. Lake Charles is oil patch, might as well be Houston East. One of my long standing rules, never stop in Lake Charles when traveling west.

Louisiana is divided into two cultures as I am sure you are aware, with almost straight lines between central and north Louisiana and South Louisiana. South Louisiana was only forced into the union about fifty-seventy-five years ago and the struggle isn't entirely over yet. When I bump into people from Louisiana in other parts of the country my first question is where? I lived and owned businesses long enough to know there are good folks in central and north Louisiana but an almost totally different culture. That culture dips down into Lake Charles and some areas around New Orleans.

Acadiana is a far different culture. A lot more laid back and having a good time doesn't include getting in a fight. I knew an old boy from central Louisiana that got in a fight almost every weekend. Didn't seem to bother him that he always lost!

I'm sure you know all or most of this. More writing for others that haven't lived here. If you want South Louisiana go to the corner from the Atchafalaya west and below I-10 There is a little tongue of Acadiana up along highway one and seventy-one above ten but it gets tricky defining.

Hu

 

[dr_dave]

complete set of bar room pool rules:

1.play like a gentleman, no chicken shit pool allowed
2. try hard to make the ball you are shooting at
3. if unsure ask
4. do what you are told is right or fight

Sorry, but that is not very "complete." Here's a more realistic, simple, and clear set of typical "bar rules" (from the "bar rules" resource page):

"BAR RULES"

Everything is the same as with the official rules of pool except:

1. If you pocket one or more balls on the break, the group with the largest number of balls down becomes your group (i.e., it is “Take What You Make“). If an equal number of group balls is pocketed, the table remains open.
2. If the 8-ball is pocketed on the break, you win; unless you also scratch or jump the CB off the table, in which case you lose.
3. All details must be called on every shot. That includes combos, kisses, caroms, rail-first hits, kicks, and banks. If not, you lose your turn and the CB remains where it is.
4. If you scratch or if you jump the CB off the table, the opponent gets ball in hand in the “kitchen” (behind the head string), and the CB must be shot out of the kitchen before making contact with a ball or cushion.
5. If you do not hit one of your balls first, you lose your turn and the opponent shoots from where the CB lies (i.e., no ball in hand for the opponent). Others fouls like not driving a ball to a cushion, double hits, pushes, scoops, and intentional miscues are not called or penalized.
6. The 8-ball cannot be used in a combination or kiss shot.
7. When shooting the 8-ball, hitting an opponent ball first results in loss of turn. Otherwise, a scratch or CB jump off the table results in loss of game, whether or not you pocket the 8.
8. Safeties are considered “dirty pool” and should not be played unless they are the result of an honest effort to pocket a ball or break out something when no shot is available.

 

[justnum]

What about rules for filming a match? I have a tripod, other places have hanging fixtures, its requires planning.
I like filming my practice sessions.
Its fun to take a few moments to have a promo shoot.

It is more common for everyone to want to film. How did you manage to deal with the variety of responses in bar rooms or when getting it dirty.

In a bar it can be tricky to have a tripod but I can have a friend film it.

Is it safe to film in bars during matches? Is it sharking to want to film the match?

I tried filming myself, its too much work for cinematic effects. You do great with instructional content.

 

[ShootingArts]

Sorry, but that is not very "complete." Here's a more realistic, simple, and clear set of typical "bar rules" (from the "bar rules" resource page):

"BAR RULES"

Everything is the same as with the official rules of pool except:

1. If you pocket one or more balls on the break, the group with the largest number of balls down becomes your group (i.e., it is “Take What You Make“). If an equal number of group balls is pocketed, the table remains open.
2. If the 8-ball is pocketed on the break, you win; unless you also scratch or jump the CB off the table, in which case you lose.
3. All details must be called on every shot. That includes combos, kisses, caroms, rail-first hits, kicks, and banks. If not, you lose your turn and the CB remains where it is.
4. If you scratch or if you jump the CB off the table, the opponent gets ball in hand in the “kitchen” (behind the head string), and the CB must be shot out of the kitchen before making contact with a ball or cushion.
5. If you do not hit one of your balls first, you lose your turn and the opponent shoots from where the CB lies (i.e., no ball in hand for the opponent). Others fouls like not driving a ball to a cushion, double hits, pushes, scoops, and intentional miscues are not called or penalized.
6. The 8-ball cannot be used in a combination or kiss shot.
7. When shooting the 8-ball, hitting an opponent ball first results in loss of turn. Otherwise, a scratch or CB jump off the table results in loss of game, whether or not you pocket the 8.
8. Safeties are considered “dirty pool” and should not be played unless they are the result of an honest effort to pocket a ball or break out something when no shot is

The danger of trying to make a real set of bar rules. I think Maha was being humorous. Your more detailed set of rules needs more detail on rule six or wasn't how we played. The eight couldn't be hit first but could be the middle ball of a combination and could be kissed off of with the object ball. Kissing off of the eight with the cue ball had to be asked about, legal some places, not others.

The most basic bar table rule of all, might makes right. Your home table, you make the rules. If two people are of equal home or away status, size and meanness establishes right with bonus points for biker wallets chained on or biker colors. Small towns, John Deere and seed caps may carry the same status.

Main Rule of Barbox pool was written by The Silver Fox, Charlie Rich. Keep on Rolling With the Flow!

Hu

 

[23DenaliBDE]

That is how you find out if somebody was really raised on a farm. They take their shoes off to keep them nice and don't even look down when the fresh cowshit squeezes between their toes!

You literally make stuff up regardless of topic

 

[ShootingArts]

You literally make stuff up regardless of topic

Quite a compliment! Do you really think I know enough to be able to make stuff up on any topic? Thank you sir!

Truth is, I stick to things that don't require making anything up. I was born on a forty acre farm and still have friends and family on farms. Need to pull a calf or foal? I can advise! How to handle rank stock? These days I am most likely to give it a whack on the butt as it goes by!

I have lived an active and varied life. The people living more sheltered lives might question what I write about. The people with experience in the same area are more likely to post some version of "been there, done that too!"

Hu

 

[maha]

good list dave..

of course its for pool room players,,, as all bar players know those are the rules already .

unless of course in their own bar they are different.

 

[23DenaliBDE]

Quite a compliment! Do you really think I know enough to be able to make stuff up on any topic? Thank you sir!

Truth is, I stick to things that don't require making anything up. I was born on a forty acre farm and still have friends and family on farms. Need to pull a calf or foal? I can advise! How to handle rank stock? These days I am most likely to give it a whack on the butt as it goes by!

I have lived an active and varied life. The people living more sheltered lives might question what I write about. The people with experience in the same area are more likely to post some version of "been there, done that too!"

Hu

Hate to break it to you, but i, and virtually everyone I know grew up farming cattle. I guess we must all be fancy here in the Midwest since we all own boots. God has truly blessed us. Maybe we just accidentally all ended up more civilized. That’s also possible.

 

[buckshotshoey]

good list dave..

of course its for pool room players,,, as all bar players know those are the rules already .

unless of course in their own bar they are different.

Not quite. In my area you have choice after the break no matter how many of each go in. Two solids and one stripe still gives you choice.

I mean what's next? On the break you have to keep track of which one fell in a pocket first.

 

[gregcantrall]

I have not read all the responses so perhaps this rule has been mentioned. 12 years ago while working as a scaffolding builder on a turnaround at a refinery in Fort McMurray Canada I encountered a new one for me. They had a weekly no entry tournament that gave the winner a Fort McMurray t-shirt. I called and pocketed my ball in the side and had the cue ball then pocket his ball in the corner to open the corner for one of my balls that was blocked. Foul was the call made by the tournament director. By his rules pocketing an opponents ball was forbidden. His authority was.....well his father. Kind of made blocking a pocket an even stronger move. Easy enough to laugh off as after 6 weeks I left with 5 t-shirts. I gave the sixth to my work partner.

 

[ShootingArts]

Not quite. In my area you have choice after the break no matter how many of each go in. Two solids and one stripe still gives you choice.

I mean what's next? On the break you have to keep track of which one fell in a pocket first.

I forgot that the order that they went in mattered if you made an equal number of both balls. Some places the first one in decided your ball set, some places the last one did.

That was sorta how the winning eight ball could be played too. If you called the eight and it went in after your ball you could call and pocket the eight on the same shot as making your last object ball. Scratches and all normal rules concerning shooting the money ball applied. Shoot and fail to pocket the money ball and it was the other player's shot. Pocket the eight and scratch and you lost. Fail to pocket the object ball and you lost for shooting the eight out of turn.

Hate to break it to you, but i, and virtually everyone I know grew up farming cattle. I guess we must all be fancy here in the Midwest since we all own boots. God has truly blessed us. Maybe we just accidentally all ended up more civilized. That’s also possible.

I would be mightily impressed except we owned more than one pair of boots. One pair, the pair with cowshit on them, were our work boots. We wore another pair for socializing and visiting.

Wearing the working boots turned out to be a great shark shooting pool when my horses were near where I worked. I didn't particularly notice the horseshit smell from it getting caked under my boots but some of my opponents sure did! Being sporting I would step out and clean them up when people complained. When they couldn't locate the smell I didn't worry about it.(grin)

You and virtually everyone you know grew up farming cattle. All I can tell you is that close relationship is avoided down here by not marrying cousins. Hopefully while growing up on a cattle farm you learned of the hazards of inbreeding.

Hu

 

[Stickman9]

The ironic part of the ubiquitous "make it take it" break rule is that most bangers strongly believe the rule favors the breaker. Even when playing under normal rules, these same players will pick the suit with fewer balls every time without ever looking at position. It's not even worth trying to explain, they want the 'credit' for that ball.

The "take what you make" rule favors weaker players. Even an APA 2 who makes a ball on the break will "select" the correct group 50% of the time.

 

[Stickman9]

To me, it seems like the problem with "bar rules" is that you only find out about the rule after you have violated it. I was playing in a tournament and pocketed one of my balls in the called pocket off another ball (it was obvious that that was the only way the shot could be made). My opponent said that I had to call exact details of the shot. I argued for a minute or two, and then said something like: "Fine, if that's that way you want to play, go ahead and shoot." I didn't expect anything to change--my goal was to rattle him. It worked, and he didn't make a ball after that.

 

[Justaneng]

Louisiana is divided into two cultures as I am sure you are aware, with almost straight lines between central and north Louisiana and South Louisiana. South Louisiana was only forced into the union about fifty-seventy-five years ago and the struggle isn't entirely over yet. When I bump into people from Louisiana in other parts of the country my first question is where? I lived and owned businesses long enough to know there are good folks in central and north Louisiana but an almost totally different culture. That culture dips down into Lake Charles and some areas around New Orleans.

Acadiana is a far different culture. A lot more laid back and having a good time doesn't include getting in a fight. I knew an old boy from central Louisiana that got in a fight almost every weekend. Didn't seem to bother him that he always lost!

Halfway down I-49 between Shreveport and Lafayette (basically the border of North and South Louisiana) there's a Welcome center - practically in the middle of the state. It's the only place in the US I've ever seen a Welcome center (and not just a rest stop) that wasn't within about 5 miles or so of an actual state border.

 

[ShootingArts]

Halfway down I-49 between Shreveport and Lafayette (basically the border of North and South Louisiana) there's a Welcome center - practically in the middle of the state. It's the only place in the US I've ever seen a Welcome center (and not just a rest stop) that wasn't within about 5 miles or so of an actual state border.

Yeah, along about Ville Platte you are crossing an unofficial international border. You are headed for true cajun country. There is a pretty good looking visitor center/museum in Lafayette that I never got to visit.

My brother and I were down on the waterfront in New Orleans when we bumped into a pretty girl with a platter full of about one inch squares of pralines on a tooth pick. She was giving samples for a candy store. I said "Wow great, these are wonderful! Never tasted anything like it. Could I try one more?" She asked where we were from. Like an idiot my brother answered Laplace, about twenty miles up river. I had a good thing going, two good things really, free pralines and talking to a pretty girl. My cousin has a business doing nothing but making pralines but what fun would it be to tell the girl that?

Hu

 

[gregcantrall]

One more humerus rule comes to mind: A long time ago and far far away, in Tri Cities Washington; There was a railbird kibitzing from the bar as John Schmidt participated in our $5 tournament. The drunk was from Texas, where they played with "real men's " rules. One of which was, if you scratch the break, you lose. He then offered a $50 game to anyone that was man enough to play by his rules. Didn't take long for his offer to be relayed to and accepted by John. John accepted the offer and declined the flip by conceding the first break. The Texas expert proceeded to break and scratch. John being a true gentleman repacked and again gave up the break. Wouldn't you know the Texas expert did it again!!!! At that point his Pocket Change was depleted and he returned to his mission at the bar.

 

[23DenaliBDE]

I forgot that the order that they went in mattered if you made an equal number of both balls. Some places the first one in decided your ball set, some places the last one did.

That was sorta how the winning eight ball could be played too. If you called the eight and it went in after your ball you could call and pocket the eight on the same shot as making your last object ball. Scratches and all normal rules concerning shooting the money ball applied. Shoot and fail to pocket the money ball and it was the other player's shot. Pocket the eight and scratch and you lost. Fail to pocket the object ball and you lost for shooting the eight out of turn.




I would be mightily impressed except we owned more than one pair of boots. One pair, the pair with cowshit on them, were our work boots. We wore another pair for socializing and visiting.

Wearing the working boots turned out to be a great shark shooting pool when my horses were near where I worked. I didn't particularly notice the horseshit smell from it getting caked under my boots but some of my opponents sure did! Being sporting I would step out and clean them up when people complained. When they couldn't locate the smell I didn't worry about it.(grin)

You and virtually everyone you know grew up farming cattle. All I can tell you is that close relationship is avoided down here by not marrying cousins. Hopefully while growing up on a cattle farm you learned of the hazards of inbreeding.

Hu

Not surprised to see you also consider yourself an expert on the topic of inbreeding.

 

[Cornerman]

The danger of trying to make a real set of bar rules. I think Maha was being humorous. Your more detailed set of rules needs more detail on rule six or wasn't how we played. The eight couldn't be hit first but could be the middle ball of a combination and could be kissed off of with the object ball. Kissing off of the eight with the cue ball had to be asked about, legal some places, not others.

The most basic bar table rule of all, might makes right. Your home table, you make the rules. If two people are of equal home or away status, size and meanness establishes right with bonus points for biker wallets chained on or biker colors. Small towns, John Deere and seed caps may carry the same status.

Main Rule of Barbox pool was written by The Silver Fox, Charlie Rich. Keep on Rolling With the Flow!

Hu

https://billiards.colostate.edu/resource_files/Cornerman_Bar_Rules.pdf

Also being humorous, but at least it’s a set of rules.

 

[Cornerman]

good list dave..

of course its for pool room players,,, as all bar players know those are the rules already .

unless of course in their own bar they are different.

It feels like you missed this link despite Dave presenting a few times:

https://billiards.colostate.edu/resource_files/Cornerman_Bar_Rules.pdf

 

[gregcantrall]

I didn't particularly notice the horseshit smell

Uh oh, you triggered an Old Fart story regarding horses. I grew up adjacent to horses and cattle but never worked with them. I basically knew enough to avoid the back end and little more. So while I was in the 8th grade and in the throws of puberty, I broke my right arm showing of for the girl I was sweet on. She appreciated my efforts and rode her horse to visit. I was honored and accepted a ride seated behind her with my good arm tight around her waist. Just when I was thinking that the broken arm was a reasonable price to pay for the intimate contact.....the horse reared up. I slid back and onto his rump. Then somehow when he came down a gap between him and the saddle opened. Gravity and momentum took my crotch into the gap which immediately closed. Tight! I was so relieved when he reared again and I was released. I immediately released my grip and slid off the back, I laid on the ground in a fetal position for a long time. It took a while to be able to speak and explain to her why "I will walk home"....as soon as I am able. I have not been on the back of a horse since. I will however give them apples when they come to the fence.