Bar table specialists

[ShootingArts]

Dave Matlock still playing?

Looks like he cashed a bit at the Derby this year. Three different events so he is still shooting pretty good. Looks like he is sixty-eight so no pup but he isn't quite done. I suspect that most of his money still comes from unofficial two man tourneys.

Dave's personal best is a 28 rack break and run on a bar table, maybe a few more or less depending on who you are talking to, and he made it to the semi's or finals in some big table events in his prime. I can't remember if he won or not. Uniquely talented and a fierce competitor. I doubt anyone thinks of barbox without thinking of Dave in the US.

PAYOUT RANK TOURNAMENT

• $550.0026thDerby City Classic 2023 Banks
• $300.0046thDerby City Classic 2023 One Pocket
• $250.0082ndDerby City Classic 2023 9-Ball

Banks, One Pocket, and Nine Ball. Not bad, not bad at all especially considering the turnout this year.

Hu

 

[WardS]

Bar tables a waaay easier. ONLY game that MIGHT be a lil tougher is 8b due to all the traffic. Other than that a bar-box is like comparing a kiddie pool to an Olympic pool. Not even close.

I know that in La at a bar table event guys were playing 1pocket on a bar box been a few years ago.

 

[ShootingArts]

I know that in La at a bar table event guys were playing 1pocket on a bar box been a few years ago.

I only had room for a barbox at my house. It had decent cushions and cloth, 4.25" corner pockets. I shot a little one pocket on it sometimes just for chuckles. Hard to say if it is harder or easier than a nine foot table. Lots of congestion but you are so close a lot of bumping and nudging is easy. Eight and out was almost just a matter of getting a start.

Tightwads on coin op's might not like it but playing with ten balls works wonders for the congestion. 9.1 instead of 14.1 is something else done on the bar boxes.

I don't like them as they seem neither fish nor fowl but the eight foot tables seem to be a sweet spot with easy pocketing and acceptable congestion.

Hu

 

[Zerksies]

My pool mentor claimed that small tables were tougher due to congestion, same amount/size of balls in less space.

Dealing with congestion is just knowledge. The difference between me and some regular bar player is knowledge. I know more and know how to deal with the pack. Also most bar box players don’t know how to properly break.

 

[RDeca]

I've noticed when I play 9 foot tables one main thing I always focus on at first is not coming up short on shape. You end up with open side angles on and having to run the cueball around table for shape. Or playing a safe when u should have been out.(Basically you come up short because your not used to the distance cueball has to travel after contact.) Players that always shoot on 9 footers are really good at multiple rail shape. Wich is almost never an option on a 7foot table in an 8 ball game

 

[The Old Jaybird]

grew up learning and playing on 9 foot snooker tables. When I went to college they had 2 six foot coin-op tables in the student center with what looked like five inch corner pockets. I ripped those tables up.

 

[Smoothrobinva]

Jason Clatterbuck....guy is so strong on a barbox.

You talking about matt

 

[dardusm]

Dave Matlock still playing?

Yep Dave still plays in the occasional tournament and is very competitive. Every once in awhile you will see him catch a gear and it was like 25 years ago. Watching him play and playing against him is always a treat.

 

[pt109]

I think the bar box specialists have lost their edge over a regular pool player…..it’s the cue ball.
…the over size cue ball was different but could be learned….the magnetic ball I refused to play with.
But at the highest level, the oversized cue ball was still a big edge….once Mike Sigel offered Bobby Leggs the 7 on a 9 footer.
In return, Bobby offered Mike the 7 on a Valley 7 footer….neither would go to the the other’s table.
Bobby had ran a 21 pack at 8-ball for serious cash.

 

[tomatoshooter]

I don't like them as they seem neither fish nor fowl but the eight foot tables seem to be a sweet spot with easy pocketing and acceptable congestion.

Yeah, the easy pocketing and reduced congestion can be fun but instead of a middle ground that makes it easy to go to the bigger or smaller table, you lack experience with the challenges of the other tables. Neither fish nor fowl, indeed.

 

[sixpack]

Are there any pro players out there that could only play on a bar table? Is it possible to be considered a pro player if you only compete on 7 footers? I see a lot of big money bar table tournaments on the streams with monster players. I definitely have my favorite bar box monsters ( Jesse Bowman, Jason Kirkwood , Shane Mcminn) . Were most 7 foot champions proficient on the 9 footers as well or was there any bar table specialists that couldn’t get the job done on the big tables? Not trying to drag anyone’s name thru the mud but I find that my game drops dramatically on the 9 footers compared to the bar table and I’m just looking for some comfort knowing that I’m not alone . Anyhow, back to practicing. Shoot Straight

I don't think nearly as many as in the past.

There are lots of great bar table players that never play on big tables because so many tournaments are on bar tables and so many areas have almost exclusively bar tables.

In the old days, with big cue balls, heavy cue balls and huge pockets that would accept a ball along the rail from anywhere, bar table players developed a style of play that allowed for weaknesses and strengths of bar tables. Things like cutting a ball instead of banking it even for extremely thin cuts. Cutting down the rail instead of the side pocket. Playing patterns with the big CB that were mostly just top running English. Being able to slam balls and have the CB react off the rail and kick out.

With diamond tables and tighter pockets, more consistent rails and CB the same size/weight as all the other balls, traditional big table mechanics rule the bar box as well. In order to dominate on the BB, a player has to have the mechanics to play well on the 9' table. Take any great bar table champion of today and give them a little time on a big table and they'll beat all the same people on the 9' that they beat on a bar table.

 

[hang-the-9]

I've noticed when I play 9 foot tables one main thing I always focus on at first is not coming up short on shape. You end up with open side angles on and having to run the cueball around table for shape. Or playing a safe when u should have been out.(Basically you come up short because your not used to the distance cueball has to travel after contact.) Players that always shoot on 9 footers are really good at multiple rail shape. Wich is almost never an option on a 7foot table in an 8 ball game

I don't know how many matches I lost on a 7 footer due to me using my "9 foot table stroke" LOL It's quite a high number though Even with 9 and 10 ball, I tend to over-run shape just a bit every so often and end up with a hard shot, tough shot for position oven behind a ball. My favorite new 7 foot table setup was actually the new Predator table with their cloth, it ran slower than a Diamond with Simonis so the natural stroke I have for shots after 30 years of shooting on 9 footers 99% of the time is not such a bit deal on them.

 

[trob]

Playing what game? If you're going to say 9b is easier on a 9ft you're delusional. 8b MAYBE but that would be the only game that MIGHT be a bit easier on a 9ft.

9 ball is definitely not easier on a 9 foot. On a bar box you rarely have to get your stroke out playing. I do think 8 ball is simply because you seem to end up with my clusters to deal with and everything tends to me more open on a 9 foot table.

 

[trob]

I don't think nearly as many as in the past.

There are lots of great bar table players that never play on big tables because so many tournaments are on bar tables and so many areas have almost exclusively bar tables.

In the old days, with big cue balls, heavy cue balls and huge pockets that would accept a ball along the rail from anywhere, bar table players developed a style of play that allowed for weaknesses and strengths of bar tables. Things like cutting a ball instead of banking it even for extremely thin cuts. Cutting down the rail instead of the side pocket. Playing patterns with the big CB that were mostly just top running English. Being able to slam balls and have the CB react off the rail and kick out.

With diamond tables and tighter pockets, more consistent rails and CB the same size/weight as all the other balls, traditional big table mechanics rule the bar box as well. In order to dominate on the BB, a player has to have the mechanics to play well on the 9' table. Take any great bar table champion of today and give them a little time on a big table and they'll beat all the same people on the 9' that they beat on a bar table.

I agree.. back in the day of playing on the old bar box’s with that huge cue ball to move around bar box pool was a lot different. Now they all have red circle cue balls with fast cloth. Seems to change everything.

 

[straightline]

9 ball is definitely not easier on a 9 foot. On a bar box you rarely have to get your stroke out playing. I do think 8 ball is simply because you seem to end up with my clusters to deal with and everything tends to me more open on a 9 foot table.

Depends on what you consider better and how well you break. There is easily gaping wiggle room on a 9 footer. This includes the to and fro of defense. Potting accuracy might be cake on a bar table so on a big table you simply don't take what are now flyers.
Multi rail cue ball is also derived from 3 cushion carom games where on a pool table, suddenly the lines and landings are a no brainer. Big zone for big ball is easily a better proposition.

If you mean stacking racks and packs, I don't know. I break crappy never bothered working it out. The current crop of "customers" won't even bother racking correctly. I consider that their spot and take it as is.

 

[garczar]

I agree.. back in the day of playing on the old bar box’s with that huge cue ball to move around bar box pool was a lot different. Now they all have red circle cue balls with fast cloth. Seems to change everything.

Worst thing you can do imo is put fast worsted cloth on a barbox. Like watching a pinball machine.

 

[sixpack]

I also want to add, for most players hearing someone say they are a bar table specialist is like money in the bank.

I prefer the bar tables. That’s where the action is where I’ve lived and I enjoy the small track. But like a lot of people I took a good big table game and adapted it to the bar table and learned the ins and outs. I competed almost exclusively on bar tables but I still practiced on big tables.

Whenever I’d beat someone and the called me a “bar table specialist” I knew I was in for a double score because inevitably they’d want to meet at a pool hall to try me “on a real table.”

I don’t remember ever losing a gambling match to someone on a big table that I beat on a bar table.

I guarantee you that nearly every “bar table specialist” is even more favored to win on a big table against someone they beat on a bar table - than they were on the bar table.

 

[Ken_4fun]

IMO Matlock was practically unbeatable on bartable. Sure he played on 9 foot tables too, but he wasnt the dominent force like he was on bar table.

I had heard that he had a standing offer for $10K bet for anyone who wanted to play (when $10K was a good amount of cash) and not many came to take him up on it.

Ken

 

[garczar]

IMO Matlock was practically unbeatable on bartable. Sure he played on 9 foot tables too, but he wasnt the dominent force like he was on bar table.

I had heard that he had a standing offer for $10K bet for anyone who wanted to play (when $10K was a good amount of cash) and not many came to take him up on it.

Ken

Yep. His stakehorse Bill Duggan(RIP) had a standing offer: come to Enid/Ponca City and you could win 10thousand. This was in the 70's when 10g's was a ton in pool. IIRC only David Howard beat this offer. Dave's game on the bb(especially with the big cueball) was(and at times still is) a thing to behold. He's still putting together 10+ game pkg's at 70yrs old. Feel free to go to Shooter's in Olathe if you feel like trying it on, Dave works there.

 

[sixpack]

IMO Matlock was practically unbeatable on bartable. Sure he played on 9 foot tables too, but he wasnt the dominent force like he was on bar table.

I had heard that he had a standing offer for $10K bet for anyone who wanted to play (when $10K was a good amount of cash) and not many came to take him up on it.

Ken

Matlock really was king of the bar box with an oversized cue ball. The aim point was different. The English reacted differently. The 90 degree rule for predicting CB path after contact wasn’t 90 degrees.

It was a big shift for him to go to the big tables. But when he did it still took a top tier pro to beat him on the 9’ tables. If the Camel tour would have lasted a little longer I think he might have won some events.