BCA rules question

[I Got Lucky]

BCA rules say a ball must touch a rail after contact or it is a foul:

3.9 Standard Fouls
If the shooter commits a foul, play passes to his opponent. The cue ball is in hand, and the incoming player may place it anywhere on the playing surface. (See 1.5 Cue Ball in Hand.) The following are standard fouls at eight ball:
6.1 Cue Ball Scratch or off the Table
6.2 Wrong Ball First; The first ball contacted by the cue ball on each shot must belong to the shooter’s group, except when the table is open. (See 3.4 Open Table / Choosing Groups.)
6.3 No Rail after Contact

The shooter hit the 1 ball below and it rolled but stopped short of falling in the side pocket? The ball crossed the plane of the rail but since there is no rail there it didn't touch a rail. I say it is a foul, my friend said no.

 

[Tony_in_MD]

Ball in hand.

Making a legal hit on the six ball may prove tough.

 

[acesinc1999]

"Crossed the plane"? What, is the NFL now an official governing body of pool and billiards in the USA? Let's take a look at the replay...

 

[9andout]

Ball in hand.

Making a legal hit on the six ball may prove tough.

Agreed. Foul. And yeah that 6 IS sitting tough!! lol

 

[Skippy27]

The following are standard fouls at eight ball:
6.1 Cue Ball Scratch or off the Table
6.2 Wrong Ball First; The first ball contacted by the cue ball on each shot must belong to the shooter’s group, except when the table is open. (See 3.4 Open Table / Choosing Groups.)
6.3 No Rail after Contact

This isn't Horse Shoes so close does not count.

If a ball did not go into a pocket or hit a rail then it is a foul.

 

[Brian in VA]

Foul, no rail. Ball in hand.

I've had to call this before during tournaments and it always ticks people off. The ball is either pocketed or hits a rail after being struck by the cue ball or it's a foul.

Brian in VA

 

[ctyhntr]

Re-affirm with your friend that you both agreed to play by BCA rules, and disagreements should be settled by the rule book.

 

[pt109]

Making a legal hit on the six ball may prove tough.

Best lag I ever saw.

 

[mortuarymike-nv]

Rule

BCA rules say a ball must touch a rail after contact or it is a foul:

3.9 Standard Fouls
If the shooter commits a foul, play passes to his opponent. The cue ball is in hand, and the incoming player may place it anywhere on the playing surface. (See 1.5 Cue Ball in Hand.) The following are standard fouls at eight ball:
6.1 Cue Ball Scratch or off the Table
6.2 Wrong Ball First; The first ball contacted by the cue ball on each shot must belong to the shooter’s group, except when the table is open. (See 3.4 Open Table / Choosing Groups.)
6.3 No Rail after Contact

The shooter hit the 1 ball below and it rolled but stopped short of falling in the side pocket? The ball crossed the plane of the rail but since there is no rail there it didn't touch a rail. I say it is a foul, my friend said no.
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Common sense.. tell your friend to think about how open door to a argument that would be.

The rule clearly states the a ball has to be pocketed and or a ball has to hit a rail...

A ball hanging in a pocket is not a ball pocketed or a ball striking a rail .................

 

[GideonF]

BCA rules say a ball must touch a rail after contact or it is a foul:

3.9 Standard Fouls
If the shooter commits a foul, play passes to his opponent. The cue ball is in hand, and the incoming player may place it anywhere on the playing surface. (See 1.5 Cue Ball in Hand.) The following are standard fouls at eight ball:
6.1 Cue Ball Scratch or off the Table
6.2 Wrong Ball First; The first ball contacted by the cue ball on each shot must belong to the shooter’s group, except when the table is open. (See 3.4 Open Table / Choosing Groups.)
6.3 No Rail after Contact

The shooter hit the 1 ball below and it rolled but stopped short of falling in the side pocket? The ball crossed the plane of the rail but since there is no rail there it didn't touch a rail. I say it is a foul, my friend said no.
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Common sense.. tell your friend to think about how open door to a argument that would be.

The rule clearly states the a ball has to be pocketed and or a ball has to hit a rail...

A ball hanging in a pocket is not a ball pocketed or a ball striking a rail .................

I agree with this, but I also note that on a plain reading of the WPA rules, on those rare occasions on certain tables when the ball is struck very firmly and hits the back of the pocket and is spit back on to the playing surface, it would be a foul. I don't think that was intended.

Gideon

 

[pt109]

I agree with this, but I also note that on a plain reading of the WPA rules, on those rare occasions on certain tables when the ball is struck very firmly and hits the back of the pocket and is spit back on to the playing surface, it would be a foul. I don't think that was intended.

Gideon

Interesting wrinkle....never thought of this.
I guess a ref that can think on his feet would call the back of the pocket part of the rail.

 

[GideonF]

Interesting wrinkle....never thought of this.
I guess a ref that can think on his feet would call the back of the pocket part of the rail.

Well, you made me look closer, and I see that the WPA definitions section says "The cushions, tops of the rails, pockets and pocket liners are parts of the rails. "

So if it hits the back of the pocket or the pocket liner, it has hit a rail.

http://www.wpa-pool.com/web/index.asp?id=123&pagetype=rules

Gideon<-----Just got out-lawyered by PT

 

[pt109]

Well, you made me look closer, and I see that the WPA definitions section says "The cushions, tops of the rails, pockets and pocket liners are parts of the rails. "

So if it hits the back of the pocket or the pocket liner, it has hit a rail.

http://www.wpa-pool.com/web/index.asp?id=123&pagetype=rules

Gideon<-----Just got out-lawyered by PT

The Life of Pt

After a brief foray into jurisprudence, pt returns to the life he knows...
....making stupid jokes.

If you're a pool player....or a hobo....
..you won't get anyplace if you don't hit the rails.

 

[mortuarymike-nv]

Ball

I agree with this, but I also note that on a plain reading of the WPA rules, on those rare occasions on certain tables when the ball is struck very firmly and hits the back of the pocket and is spit back on to the playing surface, it would be a foul. I don't think that was intended.

Gideon

If the topic was the ball popping back up on the table my response would of been different.

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

For the reason Gideon pointed out, it's a foul. BTW, there really is no such thing as BCA rules anymore since the Billiard Congress of America adopted the WPA rules in their entirety. If you look at the rules on the BCA website you will note they are on WPA letterhead.

 

[tatcat2000]

...BTW, there really is no such thing as BCA rules anymore since the Billiard Congress of America adopted the WPA rules in their entirety. If you look at the rules on the BCA website you will note they are on WPA letterhead.

To be more specific, the BCA does not formally "adopt" WSR. They long ago gave up on any interest in writing, editing, influencing, or taking any responsibility for the rules. They just publish the WPA rules as a courtesy to the WPA and to players. For the last many years, the BCA simply forwarded most questions on WSR rules or interpretations to Bill Stock at CSI/BCAPL, who sometimes brought me into the discussion. Now that Bill and I have retired I have no idea what they do...Bill may still get them.

Buddy

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

To be more specific, the BCA does not formally "adopt" WSR. They long ago gave up on any interest in writing, editing, influencing, or taking any responsibility for the rules. They just publish the WPA rules as a courtesy to the WPA and to players. For the last many years, the BCA simply forwarded most questions on WSR rules or interpretations to Bill Stock at CSI/BCAPL, who sometimes brought me into the discussion. Now that Bill and I have retired I have no idea what they do...Bill may still get them.

Buddy

Thanks for clarifying that, Buddy. Since the BCA is a member organization of the WPA, it was my interpretation that they had essentially adopted the rules, replacing their own with the WSR. In any event, I guess there currently is no such thing as a BCA set of rules. Apparently an old set of the BCA rules can still be accessed on line somewhere. Occasionally I've seen someone post something regarding those rules, not knowing they are no longer recognized for anything.

Always appreciate your insight, my friend. Well, maybe not "insight" (we all have that, lol) as much as an authoritative understanding of the rules. :thumbup:

 

[tatcat2000]

Apparently an old set of the BCA rules can still be accessed online...

Exactly. There are still various pool related websites that have links to the pre-2008 WSR. We'll probably never be rid of them, and unfortunately players, particularly beginners, get roped into them.

I'm not a techie of any sort, but apparently one of the links thst exists on several pages out there goes to the BCA website. If so, you'd think at least the BCA would care enough to delete that page. Or maybe it's just a cached link in some other space in the ether. Who knows? I emailed the BCA several years ago about it, to no avail.

 

[LIAKOS27]

Agreed. Foul. And yeah that 6 IS sitting tough!! lol

I remember a few months back was playing with a friend.

I racked the balls (10-ball) and proceeded to break. I break and the cue ball did a little hop like svb. Anyway, as it came it hit another ball and looked like it was going off table. The cue ball hit top side of the rail and had a little more in it to go off the table but stopped in between the cushion and table right in front of the side.

It then started to roll on the line and came to stop just before the corner. We both looked at each other and asked if it's a foul

Obviously it was! Seeing the 6 like that reminded me of that!