BCA Ruling on Phenolic Tips
- Thread starter stevesdl
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You can contact Bill Stock at the BCAPL office via email or call (702) 719-7665
Bill Stock (Referee Program Director)
bills@playCSIpool.com
-- Rules interpretations
-- Referee certification
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Bill Stock (Referee Program Director)
bills@playCSIpool.com
-- Rules interpretations
-- Referee certification
-- League Operator support
-- Tournament eligibility & player classification
Quoted from the BCA 2008 Complete Rule book, must have not issued the 2009 version, as the phenolic tip ban was not published in here:
Here is one from WPBA:
it states nothing that can damage or scratch the ball and doesn't state that phenolic is legal, it just says other fibrous material, is phenolic a fibrous and pliable material?
Here is one from WPBA:
it states nothing that can damage or scratch the ball and doesn't state that phenolic is legal, it just says other fibrous material, is phenolic a fibrous and pliable material?
While phenolic can be made with fiberous materials, it is not pliable.
White diamond tips are still up in the air. That was as of last week. Mr Picone was still waiting on the decision from the BCA.
BCAPL Phenolic Tip Ruling
Hi Guys,
Just My thought - I am new to this entire pool arena so I am not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing all around. I do know that I have just bought a break cue and guess what - phenolic tip. Oh well, I am hoping the tip itself can just be replaced without great cost?
I took the advice to contact Bill Stock at the BCAPL office via email and courteously received from Bill the answers to the following questions.
Q1. Are phenolic tips banned for just break cues or for break and jump cues?
A1. "We will be making our decision this week." "We will probably be requiring leather tips on break cues only. Jump cues will not be affected."
Q2. If #1 is true, when was this ban official? - (I am not sure he answered this in his reply but it might be included discerningly in this answer.)
A2. "We will be making our decision this week."
Q3. If #1 is true, are the latest tournament and BCA establishments supposed to strictly adhere to this ban or is it per discretion?
A3. "The rule will be enforced at BCAPL regional and national events. What the individual leagues do is up to them."
Q4. If #1 is true, why are not the Official BCA Rules book updated?
A4. "The 2009/2010 rules are now posted on our website. A press release about the phenolic issue will be put up this week."
(A thank you to Bill for sending a reply.)
Hi Guys,
Just My thought - I am new to this entire pool arena so I am not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing all around. I do know that I have just bought a break cue and guess what - phenolic tip. Oh well, I am hoping the tip itself can just be replaced without great cost?
I took the advice to contact Bill Stock at the BCAPL office via email and courteously received from Bill the answers to the following questions.
Q1. Are phenolic tips banned for just break cues or for break and jump cues?
A1. "We will be making our decision this week." "We will probably be requiring leather tips on break cues only. Jump cues will not be affected."
Q2. If #1 is true, when was this ban official? - (I am not sure he answered this in his reply but it might be included discerningly in this answer.)
A2. "We will be making our decision this week."
Q3. If #1 is true, are the latest tournament and BCA establishments supposed to strictly adhere to this ban or is it per discretion?
A3. "The rule will be enforced at BCAPL regional and national events. What the individual leagues do is up to them."
Q4. If #1 is true, why are not the Official BCA Rules book updated?
A4. "The 2009/2010 rules are now posted on our website. A press release about the phenolic issue will be put up this week."
(A thank you to Bill for sending a reply.)
Based on this correspondence, it looks like they haven't made a final decision yet.
If they rule against the phenolic tips, they are going to piss off a lot of manufacturers, dealers and players.
Get over it everybody. Phenolic tips are going to be banned in all tournaments shortly. Learn to jump and break the old fasion way...with leather...and earn it. Johnnyt
PS: Could jump cues be banned next. I can see the tears and hear the shouts of "unfair" now. I love it.
PS: Could jump cues be banned next. I can see the tears and hear the shouts of "unfair" now. I love it.
Official
Yes Ladies and Gentlemen,
It is official and I have a copy of the 2009-2010 rulebook.
On page viii it is the first item listed under significant rule changes in the area of cue specification.
They have added the wording "Phenolic cue tips are not permitted" to sction d. which states what the cue tip can be made of.
I have it in black and white and whether the BCAPL has posted it up as a download or not.....it's official.
Yes Ladies and Gentlemen,
It is official and I have a copy of the 2009-2010 rulebook.
On page viii it is the first item listed under significant rule changes in the area of cue specification.
They have added the wording "Phenolic cue tips are not permitted" to sction d. which states what the cue tip can be made of.
I have it in black and white and whether the BCAPL has posted it up as a download or not.....it's official.
Here is part of the WPA cue tip specification. I think this has been more or less the wording for a few years:
The cue tip may not be of a material that can scratch or damage the addressed ball. The cue tip on any stick must be composed of a piece of specially processed leather or other fibrous or pliable material that extends the natural line of the shaft end of the cue and contacts the cue ball when the shot is executed..
I'm not sure how anyone figgers phenolic is fibrous and pliable. Probably better would have been to add a limit on maximum hardness of the tip, since that is really the quality that is significant for this.
I remember reading somewhere that some types of phenolic are made with a fiber material in it. IIRC, that is how Mike G. got his original "SledgeHammer" b/j cue accepted by the BCA.
Now "pliable" may be a totally different story.
Here's the link to the 2009-2010 rulebook:
http://playbca.com/Downloads/Rulebook/CompleteRulebook/tabid/372/Default.aspx
Regarding question 1, the rulebook states that "The cue tip must be composed of leather, fibrous, or pliable material. Phenolic cue tips are not permitted."
However, the rulebook phrasing can be improved upon as it doesn't differentiate between phenolic tips on jump cues and phenolic tips on break cues. Until this wording is changed, one could argue that phenolic tips are banned for both jump and break cues.
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Based on the wording in the rule itself, in my opinion, the White Diamond tip and G10 tip would both be legal. Neither of them are phenolic in any way. Again, this is just my opinion. I've already put a hard leather tip on my phenolic ferrule (Bill Stroud did say this would be allowed) and am very happy with the way it breaks and jumps.
One would not need to argue
As it is written, ALL phenolic tips are banned regardless of which cue it is on.Well, just stopped off at the local billiard store to get my phenolic tip replaced. I have a very new Elite break cue with a carbon fiberglass ferrule and phenolic tip ... True it only cost about $80.00 but that is still some money to me.
If I chose a custom tip it will cost about $25.00 to $35.00 to replace unless I use an inexpensive Le Pro tip. Now I feel a little bit of a bite with this change.
(1/2 the cost of the break cue)
From the two billiard dealerships I have just recently spoken to, both are very confused why this new rule change if it is for the sole reason that phenolic tips with hard breaks damage the cue ball. It has been stated that if the Tournaments are using Aramith cue balls, it is very questionable the amount of cue ball damage "if any" ???
So why force thousands of users and manufacters to pay out of our pockets for such minimal consequences?
I am new to this arena so I am just kindly questioning the drastic change.
Thanks ahead of time
Stevesdl
If I chose a custom tip it will cost about $25.00 to $35.00 to replace unless I use an inexpensive Le Pro tip. Now I feel a little bit of a bite with this change.
(1/2 the cost of the break cue)From the two billiard dealerships I have just recently spoken to, both are very confused why this new rule change if it is for the sole reason that phenolic tips with hard breaks damage the cue ball. It has been stated that if the Tournaments are using Aramith cue balls, it is very questionable the amount of cue ball damage "if any" ???
So why force thousands of users and manufacters to pay out of our pockets for such minimal consequences?
I am new to this arena so I am just kindly questioning the drastic change.
Thanks ahead of time
Stevesdl
