PocketPoint
Banned
Let him win the game, but take his picture and then post it on the wall, some sort of "wall of shame" deal stating that he cheated on this date etc......
BCA ruling or perhaps just common sense?
- Thread starter poolfool1957
- Start date
let it stand just as played. but now that player must call EVERY shot he takes, no matter what. its his bed, let him lie in it. you can even notify his opposing captains that "john smith" loses his turn if ANY shot is uncalled.
what he did is within the rules but is clearly an angleshoot. amazing that people put their integrity at stake over a recreational game
what he did is within the rules but is clearly an angleshoot. amazing that people put their integrity at stake over a recreational game
I would arrange a meeting with the players and the captains of both teams.
At that meeting, I would have both players give their version of what happened (without interruption by anyone).
Next I would ask both captains to give their versions.
Get everything out on top of the table.
If it went down the way you descibed, I would take the game away from Player A and give it to Player B, citing unsportmanslike like behavior on the part of Player A.
And I would also issue a Warning to the person that threw down the rule book and cussed out the opposing captain (or whomever). The warning would be that if another such event occurs, the individual is suspended from league play for two weeks... and if necessary, he would forfeit his games during the suspension if subs are not allowed.
A LO needs to maintain control of his league. Be fair but also be decisive.
I don't agree with the poster that he should be banned. Some good people, although nieve (sp?), have come to similar conclusions. He may feel he is correct in his interpretation of the rules, but he is not. Nip it in the bud and explain to the whole league.
Although not fair to player B, you should make them play the game over. That is the best thing you can do at this point.
Jeff...He wasn't following the rules, which clearly state that if you have no intention to shoot again, after pocketing a ball, you MUST declare a safety beforehand. He apparently did not do that, and therefore would be required to take a shot at the 8. The rules also state that you're playing call pocket, not call shot...so not calling the bank was immaterial.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Hi Scott,
But the penalty for not calling a safety is to keep shooting. Yet, the penalty for not calling a pocket is to stop shooting. He called neither.
So whiich was the initial infraction? To me that's the rule he broke (not calling pocket) and he called himself on that rule. Silly, I know but still within the rules, I'd say. Ostracism is the best remedy imho.
As someone here wisely said: pay attention to your opponent when he's shooting and nip such problems in the bud by asking 'what pocket?' before the bank.
Jeff Livingston
At what point in the first post did Player A ever say anything about a 'safe'? He just said he didn't call his pocket.
...the ol' telephone game is a live and well.
This was my thought exactly. What if player B says "I saw you call that pocket" it's still your turn.
Player A would say "I did not call it".
The end result would be a rerack and play it over. If both players can't agree on what happened on a particular shot, the game is played over. This is what should have happened, IMHO.
This is my favorite answer.
But that would be a lie by player B and then he would have (possibly) won by cheating.
Jeff Livingston
I bet you think the shooter was real proud of himself for confessing he didn't call the shot.
Telephone game...
Telephone game...
I bet you think the shooter was real proud of himself for confessing he didn't call the shot.
Telephone game...
Hi Tom,
EDIT: Sorry, Tom, I thought your were replying to me and I just saw otherwise, so take this post with a grain of salt.
I said it would be better if he were ostracized by the other league members.That works better than you might think to control such stupid crap. Few players (who obviously want to win so bad) can stand such a bad reputation and its trappings amongst those he pretends to beat with his play.
Still, he followed the rules so to really fix this, fix the rules....and good luck with that!
Jeff Livingston
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I'd call unsportsmanlike conduct and award ball in hand to player B. If that starts a bigger argument, move to loss of game.
Also see WPA rule 1.10 (http://www.wpa-pool.com/index.asp?content=rules_tournament#1.10): "Fouls must be called promptly." By looking over the table for 30 seconds before turning it over, player A didn't call his "miss" promptly, which is further evidence of his unsportsmanlike conduct.
Also see WPA rule 1.10 (http://www.wpa-pool.com/index.asp?content=rules_tournament#1.10): "Fouls must be called promptly." By looking over the table for 30 seconds before turning it over, player A didn't call his "miss" promptly, which is further evidence of his unsportsmanlike conduct.
Two lies don't make it right, but at least it would be fair. This scenario is obvious that player A intended on making the bank, otherwise he would have taken his seat as soon as it fell n the hole, saying "I meant to play safe." The fact that he surveyed the shot on the 8, then said he played safe is just "shaky", to say the least.
I say, rerack and play it over.
No biggie.. but thanks for the clarification. The rules do cover unsportsmanlike conduct. IMO this covers a lot of what needs 'fixin'
Hi Tom,
EDIT: Sorry, Tom, I thought your were replying to me and I just saw otherwise, so take this post with a grain of salt.
I said it would be better if he were ostracized by the other league members.That works better than you might think to control such stupid crap. Few players (who obviously want to win so bad) can stand such a bad reputation and its trappings amongst those he pretends to beat with his play.
Still, he followed the rules so to really fix this, fix the rules....and good luck with that!
Jeff Livingston
I don't think it matters what the rule book says word for word in this instance. That can lead to too many arguments based on interpretation. The spirit of the rule is to prevent poor sportsmanship and dishonest play, and in this circumstance, the rule was used as an out clause for a coward. Just make a ruling based on what set of values you want YOUR league to represent.
It is clear that the intent of Player A was dishonest at best. That said, strip Player A of his win/points earned for that game and disallow his participation in end of session tournaments, etc.
Also place the captains of the teams involved on probation, stating that next time there is reported unsportsmanlike behaviour from anyone on their team it results in a match forfeit. That should get everyone in line real quick.
Also for kicks and giggles, I would create a local bylaw to the rules and pass it out to all teams. Call it the "PLAYER A" rule which states that not calling an "obvious" shot results in ball in hand for the opponent.
Joe
It is clear that the intent of Player A was dishonest at best. That said, strip Player A of his win/points earned for that game and disallow his participation in end of session tournaments, etc.
Also place the captains of the teams involved on probation, stating that next time there is reported unsportsmanlike behaviour from anyone on their team it results in a match forfeit. That should get everyone in line real quick.
Also for kicks and giggles, I would create a local bylaw to the rules and pass it out to all teams. Call it the "PLAYER A" rule which states that not calling an "obvious" shot results in ball in hand for the opponent.
Joe
I bet you think the shooter was real proud of himself for confessing he didn't call the shot.
Telephone game...
Are you just making shit up? I clearly stated that the shooter was wrong. You are the telephone game...get your facts right.
Bca rules as I remember them are very clear that all banks and combos must be called. I would be watching him like a hawk in the future and when he shot an obvious combo or bank I would call him on that rule and then you know what would happen? He would say that he indeed did call it.
Once in a gambling match I shouted "SAFE" before making a ball of mine and snookering my opponent. We were the only guys playing after league and about five league players were watching. My opponent said he didn't hear me and that I had to keep shooting. (I was snookered by the eight.) Everyone piped up saying that I'd yelled safe before I shot but he said that I should have looked at him and gotten a nod that he heard.
He was right but also a douche.
Once in a gambling match I shouted "SAFE" before making a ball of mine and snookering my opponent. We were the only guys playing after league and about five league players were watching. My opponent said he didn't hear me and that I had to keep shooting. (I was snookered by the eight.) Everyone piped up saying that I'd yelled safe before I shot but he said that I should have looked at him and gotten a nod that he heard.
He was right but also a douche.
No, it isn't your responsibility for him to hear it. Your only responsibility is to call it and at a reasonable volume some would argue. Now I just created another loop hole. What is a reasonable volume?
It is not up to you nor in the rule books that you have to get a nod. You got screwed because you allowed him to screw you. What about his responsibility to pay attention to the game he is playing?
What if you were playing a def person? What if you are playing a blind person who can see you mark the pocket? I would like to see a blind person play pool
It's this type of nitty crap that has given pool the bad reputation that it has. It is the responsibility of all players to educate and suppress this type of conduct.