Beat or Match Mosconi's 526 at the BCAPL Nationals Win Cash!

Pocket Size

It's been a little slow on the Forum lately so I will put this out there.
I have often thought to myself why I have decent runs but do not break 100 as much as I would like to. I measured my pockets on my table. The corner pockets are 4 & a quarter inches wide.
It appears that it is closer to 4" then 4 1/4 Now I understand why I hang up so many balls.

I need 6" pockets..... LOL

PS: Dennis, those are really neat looking posters of the old time players. I have a really neat one too. I will try to post a photo of it in the next few days.
 
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... I measured my pockets on my table. The corner pockets are 4 & a quarter inches wide.
It appears that it is closer to 4" then 4 1/4 ...

Wow, Mike; all those great runs of yours with corner pockets that are 4 1/4" or less! :eek: I'm further humbled.
 
Thanks

Wow, Mike; all those great runs of yours with corner pockets that are 4 1/4" or less! :eek: I'm further humbled.


Thank you for the compliment. Those pockets have ended many more good runs then I have ever posted. Maybe it has helped me be accurate over the years but it sure is frustrating to hang up a ball during a good run. I have notice that when I play on other tables it seems easier to me.
 
Hehe Mikey :)

better stay here in this part of the forum- or this could end in an *aiming thread*, lmao--


Secret for Mikey s Aiming System: He aims the way, that the ball goes centerpocket :p
You re a fox *grin*.

take care Mike,
ttys
Ingo
 
Back to the post that is pool related

I must say that some of the older tables had a slate design to where when the ball got in the shelf of the pocket the slate was not cut at a 90. I am referring to what they used to call drop pocket tables, there is a table at Q-Masters in Virginia that has drop pockets, it is incredibly easy. I will say that it's a nice gesture to keep Mosconi's record in the spotlight - but this offer is not a real threat to Mosconi's record with the Diamond pro spec pockets of today - or in other words the money is safe. However I think with a table like the one in VA it would be possible for me to run over five (I would probably get to 525 and miss):smile:. I don't think that CSI would want to put up twenty thousand with a camera and give me or a few others a couple of years to surpass Mosconi's record. However there are many variables to consider like cloth, analysis of filmed footage from todays top players, and the clay balls vs todays phenolic resin or plastic pool balls.

I do think they can catch a cheat from the replacement of balls after missing, with all of their technology. I realize I am wasting my time with this but if anyone figures out whether a filmed run would be considered legit - even after the geek squad had full-proofed the footage. Then give me and others a table like the one Schmidt ran his 400 on and put up 20 dimes, my bet is that Mosconi's run would not stand for long. I can assure yall that the 280 I caught on tape is real - I did not miss untill the 281st shot. I have many 300 ball runs on a table that might be tougher than the one Willie ran all those racks on.
 
...I don't think that CSI would want to put up twenty thousand with a camera and give me or a few others a couple of years to surpass Mosconi's record...


lol. Whenever I hear someone say something like this the first thing I think is: you want a free shot.

IOW, you want someone to set up the table and let you wail away. If you're so sure you, or someone, or anyone, can take Mosconi's record, why don't you say instead: if the facilities are provided, I will match X dollars in prize money and say I can break Mosconi's record in X number of tries/hours?

oh, that's right. You want a free shot.

Lou Figueroa
never mind Mosconi did it
in one inning
 
It's been a little slow on the Forum lately so I will put this out there.
I have often thought to myself why I have decent runs but do not break 100 as much as I would like to. I measured my pockets on my table. The corner pockets are 4 & a quarter inches wide.
It appears that it is closer to 4" then 4 1/4 Now I understand why I hang up so many balls.

I need 6" pockets..... LOL

PS: Dennis, those are really neat looking posters of the old time players. I have a really neat one too. I will try to post a photo of it in the next few days.

Your pockets didn't seem that tight when I stopped by. You're measuring from point to point where the rail changes direction? Or are you measuring the back of the pocket?
 
I'm Stupid

You know what? I think that I have measured the pocket incorrectly. I did some Internet research and found out the way to measure a pocket is from the tip of the cushion to the other tip. I had measured from the inside of the pocket where the ball falls off the shelf into the pocket.
I think maybe my table has a deep shelf compared to other tables. Which would lead to balls hanging up.

Sorry about the mistake. I just did not think that I was capable of making a mistake..... I am very surprised...... :>)
 
You know what? I think that I have measured the pocket incorrectly. I did some Internet research and found out the way to measure a pocket is from the tip of the cushion to the other tip. I had measured from the inside of the pocket where the ball falls off the shelf into the pocket.
I think maybe my table has a deep shelf compared to other tables. Which would lead to balls hanging up.

Sorry about the mistake. I just did not think that I was capable of making a mistake..... I am very surprised...... :>)

No worries. So what do your pockets measure point to point?
 
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good post

I must say that some of the older tables had a slate design to where when the ball got in the shelf of the pocket the slate was not cut at a 90. I am referring to what they used to call drop pocket tables, there is a table at Q-Masters in Virginia that has drop pockets, it is incredibly easy. I will say that it's a nice gesture to keep Mosconi's record in the spotlight - but this offer is not a real threat to Mosconi's record with the Diamond pro spec pockets of today - or in other words the money is safe. However I think with a table like the one in VA it would be possible for me to run over five (I would probably get to 525 and miss):smile:. I don't think that CSI would want to put up twenty thousand with a camera and give me or a few others a couple of years to surpass Mosconi's record. However there are many variables to consider like cloth, analysis of filmed footage from todays top players, and the clay balls vs todays phenolic resin or plastic pool balls.

I do think they can catch a cheat from the replacement of balls after missing, with all of their technology. I realize I am wasting my time with this but if anyone figures out whether a filmed run would be considered legit - even after the geek squad had full-proofed the footage. Then give me and others a table like the one Schmidt ran his 400 on and put up 20 dimes, my bet is that Mosconi's run would not stand for long. I can assure yall that the 280 I caught on tape is real - I did not miss untill the 281st shot. I have many 300 ball runs on a table that might be tougher than the one Willie ran all those racks on.


Danny, Thanks for the thoughtful post, with no drama and insults. You come off better when using the old noodle rather than emotion, I mean that.

I appreciate your respect for the difficulty of achieving 526 with a camera set up on a table of lesser difficulty. As you stated it would probably take some top pro's a couple of years to break it.

If the table in Virginia is still there and many others about the country I would bet exist. Why not take some friends out occasionally with a camera and start cracking at the 526 on your own time. With enough eyes plus a camera I think you would have all the evidence needed to have a legitimate new high run.

It should also be easy to get a table with pocket size and playing size similar to the Mosconi high run table and set it up at home and you could then break the record multiple times if you want to. Remember nobody offered $20K when Mosconi set the record.
 
You know what? I think that I have measured the pocket incorrectly. I did some Internet research and found out the way to measure a pocket is from the tip of the cushion to the other tip. I had measured from the inside of the pocket where the ball falls off the shelf into the pocket.
I think maybe my table has a deep shelf compared to other tables. Which would lead to balls hanging up.

Sorry about the mistake. I just did not think that I was capable of making a mistake..... I am very surprised...... :>)

Best thing I have seen on this topic is from this site:

http://www.azbilliards.com/rogerlong/roger2.php
 
It would be great to see someone break Mosconi's record. I'd also like to see someone take a run at the 5 x 10 record, which I believe is Crane's 309.

The thing you have to remember about Mosconi's record is he did it in an exhibition. He didn't get a dime extra for running 526 which is why he usually stopped. If someone had offered Mosconi a significant financial incentive to break his own record there is little doubt in my mind Mosconi could break it.
 
lol. Whenever I hear someone say something like this the first thing I think is: you want a free shot.

IOW, you want someone to set up the table and let you wail away. If you're so sure you, or someone, or anyone, can take Mosconi's record, why don't you say instead: if the facilities are provided, I will match X dollars in prize money and say I can break Mosconi's record in X number of tries/hours?

oh, that's right. You want a free shot.

Lou Figueroa
never mind Mosconi did it
in one inning

Lou, this was an exhibition and Willie got on a roll and ran some balls. He did not say here comes a 526 and wala he ran that number. The only reason that feat has any significance here today is that some lawyer suggested the affidavit aside from that happening this run would just be a mere footnote the same as Eufemia and Cranfield currently get and whoever else ran monster numbers back in the day.

You might say it is a free shot and that is what that Danny is suggesting but if a new exceptional high run was accomplished and Diamond offered that player some cash for doing the same say on a Diamond table they could get plenty of promotional value out of it.

If I thought I could get a world class pro to focus on a task I set for 2 years putting in plenty of effort for only 20k I would think I was getting a bargain. Let say it takes 2 years (104 weeks) 6 days a week (624 working days) 6 hours a day (3744 total hours). The player would be getting ~ $5.34/hr. So I think the person putting up the prize would be getting something for the 20k, a lot of effort. Now lets say whoever posts up the prize requires the video to be captured and also to be streamed by the attempting players (maybe more than 1 will chase a big prize). If so the person with the fund could lots of video streams available put the streams together on a home page and promote the effort to get attention to the sport and their product.

Someone say offer me a small sum such as $20k and I will focus on breaking your record. Owe yeah you do not have to pay me till I do this no matter how long it takes I will work at it till I do it. And you want to say that the player is asking for a free shot as if their time and effort has no value.

I think they should offer $100k not $20k and then spend a million dollars or more promoting the prize to get attention on the effort. That is what happens with more mainstream sports and prizes the promotion cost is higher than the prize. That would bring in many viewers to watch the efforts. Perhaps these viewers would buy some equipment and go play some pool. Perhaps they would just start watching pool if it was well done to watch this would perhaps bring in some mainstream product as advertisers as well. I am not saying that Diamond, Brunswick, OB or Predator or anyone should offer such a prize in particular, I am saying this is what an entity wanting players to make such an effort and get results should do if it wants results and attention on the effort.

The world watches baseball, soccer and golf all can be thought of as very boring to watch by many people but yet they bring enough viewers to attract big mainstream money.

Danny I do not think you were asking for a free shot.
 
Lou, this was an exhibition and Willie got on a roll and ran some balls. He did not say here comes a 526 and wala he ran that number. The only reason that feat has any significance here today is that some lawyer suggested the affidavit aside from that happening this run would just be a mere footnote the same as Eufemia and Cranfield currently get and whoever else ran monster numbers back in the day.

You might say it is a free shot and that is what that Danny is suggesting but if a new exceptional high run was accomplished and Diamond offered that player some cash for doing the same say on a Diamond table they could get plenty of promotional value out of it.

If I thought I could get a world class pro to focus on a task I set for 2 years putting in plenty of effort for only 20k I would think I was getting a bargain. Let say it takes 2 years (104 weeks) 6 days a week (624 working days) 6 hours a day (3744 total hours). The player would be getting ~ $5.34/hr. So I think the person putting up the prize would be getting something for the 20k, a lot of effort. Now lets say whoever posts up the prize requires the video to be captured and also to be streamed by the attempting players (maybe more than 1 will chase a big prize). If so the person with the fund could lots of video streams available put the streams together on a home page and promote the effort to get attention to the sport and their product.

Someone say offer me a small sum such as $20k and I will focus on breaking your record. Owe yeah you do not have to pay me till I do this no matter how long it takes I will work at it till I do it. And you want to say that the player is asking for a free shot as if their time and effort has no value.

I think they should offer $100k not $20k and then spend a million dollars or more promoting the prize to get attention on the effort. That is what happens with more mainstream sports and prizes the promotion cost is higher than the prize. That would bring in many viewers to watch the efforts. Perhaps these viewers would buy some equipment and go play some pool. Perhaps they would just start watching pool if it was well done to watch this would perhaps bring in some mainstream product as advertisers as well. I am not saying that Diamond, Brunswick, OB or Predator or anyone should offer such a prize in particular, I am saying this is what an entity wanting players to make such an effort and get results should do if it wants results and attention on the effort.

The world watches baseball, soccer and golf all can be thought of as very boring to watch by many people but yet they bring enough viewers to attract big mainstream money.

Danny I do not think you were asking for a free shot.


hmmmmmmmmm, no.

Elvi, someone putting up booku bucks would get bupkis out of it. It'd be on YouTube or Vimeo in no time at all and that would be that. And that is the problem. When it comes to pool, talk of big $ numbers has the promise of absolutely zero, in this day and age. No one cares about pool and you couldn't even get Jeanne Moos to do a human interest/stupid people piece on it on CNN. I don't think even ESPN would touch it unless the run involved a couple of thousand dominoes and a chimpanzee.

Please explain to me how anyone recoups their $20-$100K investment on this, should the record be broken.

Lou Figueroa
 
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Thanks

Best thing I have seen on this topic is from this site:

http://www.azbilliards.com/rogerlong/roger2.php


Thanks Brian:
Great Link. By using this formula. I took all my measurements. It came out that my table has a 9.91 pocket rating which comes out to be: XT (Extra Tough) by Roger Long's research. (5.25 x 4.25 divided by 2.25)

I also watched the video on YouTube that Diamond has about pocket size, talking about shelf size. They state they can see 40% of a ball placed inside of a pocket when looking down the rail. I can only see 25% of a ball on my table. Now I know why some of my good runs come to an end besides me just plain out missing. Good info.
 
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hmmmmmmmmm, no.

Elvi, someone putting up booku bucks would get bupkis out of it. It'd be on YouTube or Vimeo in no time at all and that would be that. And that is the problem. When it comes to pool, talk of big $ numbers has the promise of absolutely zero, in this day and age. No one cares about pool and you couldn't even get Jeanne Moos to do a human interest/stupid people piece on it on CNN. I don't think even ESPN would touch it unless the run involved a couple of thousand dominoes and a chimpanzee.

Please explain to me how anyone recoups their $20-$100K investment on this, should the record be broken.

Lou Figueroa

Lou it is simple if you build something they will come if you tell them it is great and get them excited. I suggest that large money+promotion in the mainstream world will attract attention. I think there is many that watch pool as crappy as it is on TV now and would watch it more if it was promoted and doled out live on a regular basis and made available. The people will watch what is pushed and what is available on the tube. Who would have thought that talent shows and reality TV about tow companies, gay real estate agents, house wives trying to one up each other, pawn shops and I could go on forever would be big TV. Now we have skateboarding on TV and people doing bicylce tricks when I was a teenager that was all underground and there was no money in it. This fact that skateboarding is big money now is only true because it has attracted big money. It has got buzz because of that the big money brings with it the TV time slot.

A prize has no value if it attracts no attention. If pool is to be brought back to the mainstream then something has to happen to get the attention of the mainstream world. That is why I say a big prize and a bigger promotion will attract attention. Now is watching a player run rack after rack going to be nail biting TV, I doubt it but breaking a famous record in a promoted way would be a good way to attract attention .

I think if someone wants to break Mosconi's record they are going to have to put money up to get the attention of the top players. No single player today or ever is going to say here you go 526+ coming at you and run a huge number on demand. Mosconi could not do it either he might have ran more balls at a different time but I bet the public 526 was one of his top 5 runs of all time maybe his second highest run. I believe he claimed a higher practice number.

So what I am saying is breaking that run in public or even on video would possibly be a way to attract attention if handled properly, how that could be done is something I do not know. Or it could be handled as everything else is with pool now and it would be on You Tube and ignored in no time. So I would get people involved who know how to get attention I would hire a media/promotional company. If I had a reason to try to attract attention I would offer a large or perhaps even a huge prize I would hire a promotion company and spend 10x as much on advertising the promotion. I would figure out how to get some mileage out of the event when the record was broken on mainstream media including sports networks. Then I would try to attract attention to either my league pool thing or my new pro pool league and I would use this as a toe hold to get attention.

Nobody in pool has any concept of attracting paying viewers (TV with advertiser) I think we give our content away but that is a different topic, we seem to only attract participants thus small audience = small money the cycle will continue.
 
Lou it is simple if you build something they will come if you tell them it is great and get them excited. I suggest that large money+promotion in the mainstream world will attract attention. I think there is many that watch pool as crappy as it is on TV now and would watch it more if it was promoted and doled out live on a regular basis and made available. The people will watch what is pushed and what is available on the tube. Who would have thought that talent shows and reality TV about tow companies, gay real estate agents, house wives trying to one up each other, pawn shops and I could go on forever would be big TV. Now we have skateboarding on TV and people doing bicylce tricks when I was a teenager that was all underground and there was no money in it. This fact that skateboarding is big money now is only true because it has attracted big money. It has got buzz because of that the big money brings with it the TV time slot.

A prize has no value if it attracts no attention. If pool is to be brought back to the mainstream then something has to happen to get the attention of the mainstream world. That is why I say a big prize and a bigger promotion will attract attention. Now is watching a player run rack after rack going to be nail biting TV, I doubt it but breaking a famous record in a promoted way would be a good way to attract attention .

I think if someone wants to break Mosconi's record they are going to have to put money up to get the attention of the top players. No single player today or ever is going to say here you go 526+ coming at you and run a huge number on demand. Mosconi could not do it either he might have ran more balls at a different time but I bet the public 526 was one of his top 5 runs of all time maybe his second highest run. I believe he claimed a higher practice number.

So what I am saying is breaking that run in public or even on video would possibly be a way to attract attention if handled properly, how that could be done is something I do not know. Or it could be handled as everything else is with pool now and it would be on You Tube and ignored in no time. So I would get people involved who know how to get attention I would hire a media/promotional company. If I had a reason to try to attract attention I would offer a large or perhaps even a huge prize I would hire a promotion company and spend 10x as much on advertising the promotion. I would figure out how to get some mileage out of the event when the record was broken on mainstream media including sports networks. Then I would try to attract attention to either my league pool thing or my new pro pool league and I would use this as a toe hold to get attention.

Nobody in pool has any concept of attracting paying viewers (TV with advertiser) I think we give our content away but that is a different topic, we seem to only attract participants thus small audience = small money the cycle will continue.


As someone who has background in PR, what I was trying to say is that this is not a viable contract.

Getting good promotional people involved in the first place is expensive. Putting up the dough for the pros to climb the hill is a big expense. And then "trying" to market this (with *no* guarantee of a return) is also expensive.

IMO, from a PR point of view, this is DOA.

Lou Figueroa
 
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