BEFORE carbide mandrels
- Thread starter Dirtbmw20
- Start date
Caliper????:thumbup: Measure twice cut once?:grin::grin::grin:
LOL.... thanks Kenny. I knew I would get that answer at least once if not by all.
Lee Casto
Kenny's answer may sound simplistic but it's actually true.
You don't NEED sanding-mandrels.
When you are confident that you have the hole centered in the shaft
and you cut your installed-rings based on that center,
it comes down to: how well you can read calipers.
Dead-center is dead-center.
The only time this method doesn't work is when the pin in the handle is off.
In that scenario, sanding-mandrels won't help anyway.
Measure twice?? Measure 6 or 7 times if you have to.
I've built 1,000s of aftermarket shafts for Sey in my career.
I'll share something that I've learned from that experience and
at least one rather large manufacturer has learned as well.
Bring the shaft's dia. in @ .002/.003" oversize to the handle's jnt. dia.
I'll let the reader digest this for a while.
Don't want to give away too much at one time. Lol
KJ
You don't NEED sanding-mandrels.
When you are confident that you have the hole centered in the shaft
and you cut your installed-rings based on that center,
it comes down to: how well you can read calipers.
Dead-center is dead-center.
The only time this method doesn't work is when the pin in the handle is off.
In that scenario, sanding-mandrels won't help anyway.
Measure twice?? Measure 6 or 7 times if you have to.
I've built 1,000s of aftermarket shafts for Sey in my career.
I'll share something that I've learned from that experience and
at least one rather large manufacturer has learned as well.
Bring the shaft's dia. in @ .002/.003" oversize to the handle's jnt. dia.
I'll let the reader digest this for a while.
Don't want to give away too much at one time. Lol
KJ
Thanks KJ. I know you don't NEED sanding mandrels. I was just curious as to what builders used before the carbide mandrel craze came out.
Seems a regular steel (or even aluminum) mandrel, almost like the ones that Prather sells, would suffice just fine.
I was just curious is all.
Lee Casto
Seems a regular steel (or even aluminum) mandrel, almost like the ones that Prather sells, would suffice just fine.
I was just curious is all.
Lee Casto
For my own that were all the same size I made up a dummy joint I would use to cut down the shaft to the finish size. You could always fit the shaft directly to the butt but there is something about handling a finished butt any more then you have to that can be stressful. Lathes are made of unforgiving steel, one miss handling of the butt and there goes your work.
If you are making a shaft for another cue you have to either fit it to the cue directly or measure correctly taking into account the thickness of the finish to be added. It can be very annoying when you make someone a new shaft and you see them running their finger over the joint looking for any slight discrepancy, then the dirty look if it is not absolutely perfect.
Lee, the reason that you do not want to use a maint arbor is that they are too soft. Sanding mandrels will not change size easily when sanded on. If you have a Good set you will find that your joint will come together smoothly with less effort. They are made up in sets that are ground together. If you need to make up a shaft latter on for a cue you will not need your customers cue to do so. That being said Kj is correct in the fact that you don't need them. In fact it is best to learn without them first. You can use the maint arbor just don't use it for the correct size. In fact I cut mine down so that I did not sand on them.
Jim
Jim
Last edited:
When I make a shaft for someone I like to have the butt. I turn the shaft to about .020 over size then put the butt in the lathe and indicate it to get it to run true. Screw on the shaft and then turn the shaft joint under size enough to account for the finish. Turn the shaft up to the butt and leave about a 1/32 ridge so you don't touch the butt.
Take the shaft off the butt and use a maint mandrill to sand the joint of the shaft smooth and put on the finish. Measure and sand the finish down to the size of the butt and buff it.
This way the 2 halves of the joint are concentric........
This works for me and I have done lots of them. For my own cues, I use sanding mandrills.
Kim
Take the shaft off the butt and use a maint mandrill to sand the joint of the shaft smooth and put on the finish. Measure and sand the finish down to the size of the butt and buff it.
This way the 2 halves of the joint are concentric........
This works for me and I have done lots of them. For my own cues, I use sanding mandrills.
Kim
I always love it when they give you a butt to make a shaft and the pin is off center and the original shaft was sanded to the butt to match. You usually find this out when you make the shaft to size and when fitted it hangs over on one side and in on the other.
Leave the new shafts .002 over.
Use the butt as mandrel but don't sand or take a pass on its collar.
Sharpen a nice parting tool .
You know the rest.
Use the butt as mandrel but don't sand or take a pass on its collar.
Sharpen a nice parting tool .
You know the rest.
This is a really good method. Make a mental note of the quote in bold.
Great point Chris...... I messed up the first one I did.....now I leave a little and sand it.... live and learn...... LOL
Kim
Hi,
Great posts here for sure!!
I don't have a problem bringing both my shafts and butts to the same dia. with very even joint concentricity. Kenny is right about measuring very carefully on the end of a tapered piece. You must be very careful and take you time to get it right.
The reason I use the one set of mandrels is because I have to build up my epoxy substrate .003 per side and to do that I must put on about 5 to 7 thou per side to cure before sanding.
So I machine both the shafts and butt on dedicated saw tapering machines to .846 and sand them with 220 and air to .844. Because of surface tension rounding at the joint when applying the epoxy, I have a method to apply epoxy to about .856 to .860. This way my joint when it is fit to the mandrel is oversized completely around the mandrel fit up after the epoxy cures.
I spin the cue and sand the cured epoxy down close to the size fit with 220 then use 320 by hand going back and forth very carefully at the joint without spinning until it is flush all the way around. About 5 minutes work for each shaft and the butt individually.
Then into the spay booth, wet sand and buff and they match.
The mandrel to me is only a datum or dimensional benchmark standard for making sure my coatings are at a consistent thickness.
When someone wants an extra shaft for one of my cues built after 2011 I know it will fit right. If there are rings to line up I need the cue but if it has simple rings I can ship the shaft knowing it will fit right.
BTW, I bought my one set of mandrels from John Rocker and they are awesome. It took me a solid year to learn how to make them work for me finally getting to the procedure I described here.
As we all know everything thing about cue making is tricky and requires trial and error with patience and observation. Everything is not as simple as it seems at first.
Rick
Great posts here for sure!!
I don't have a problem bringing both my shafts and butts to the same dia. with very even joint concentricity. Kenny is right about measuring very carefully on the end of a tapered piece. You must be very careful and take you time to get it right.
The reason I use the one set of mandrels is because I have to build up my epoxy substrate .003 per side and to do that I must put on about 5 to 7 thou per side to cure before sanding.
So I machine both the shafts and butt on dedicated saw tapering machines to .846 and sand them with 220 and air to .844. Because of surface tension rounding at the joint when applying the epoxy, I have a method to apply epoxy to about .856 to .860. This way my joint when it is fit to the mandrel is oversized completely around the mandrel fit up after the epoxy cures.
I spin the cue and sand the cured epoxy down close to the size fit with 220 then use 320 by hand going back and forth very carefully at the joint without spinning until it is flush all the way around. About 5 minutes work for each shaft and the butt individually.
Then into the spay booth, wet sand and buff and they match.
The mandrel to me is only a datum or dimensional benchmark standard for making sure my coatings are at a consistent thickness.
When someone wants an extra shaft for one of my cues built after 2011 I know it will fit right. If there are rings to line up I need the cue but if it has simple rings I can ship the shaft knowing it will fit right.
BTW, I bought my one set of mandrels from John Rocker and they are awesome. It took me a solid year to learn how to make them work for me finally getting to the procedure I described here.
As we all know everything thing about cue making is tricky and requires trial and error with patience and observation. Everything is not as simple as it seems at first.
Rick
Last edited:
Nice job Rick. I can appreciate how long it takes to perfect a method.
I started out sanding my cue joint with the cue assembled to get the joint right, Even then it was not always concentric. If I had to face the shaft, the joint sometimes had a ridge one side. I did this for a long time and I was never really happy with the joint on my cues.
I bought a set of ,850 sanding mandrills from Chris Hightower. They are worth every penny of the price. They are the only thing that I know is concentric in my shop and everything I do is trued to them.
I turn my butts to .840 and then put on the epoxy seal coat. I block sand the seal coat to .850 using the sanding mandrill to insure concentricity, Then I change to a smaller arbor and sand the butt down to ,846. I put on my finish coats and let it cure for a week. Then I sand the finish back down to .850 using the sanding mandrill.
This way I only need one set of mandrills instead of sanding set and a finish set.
I use a similar procedure on the shaft.............
It has taken me 3 years to get it right....
Kim
I started out sanding my cue joint with the cue assembled to get the joint right, Even then it was not always concentric. If I had to face the shaft, the joint sometimes had a ridge one side. I did this for a long time and I was never really happy with the joint on my cues.
I bought a set of ,850 sanding mandrills from Chris Hightower. They are worth every penny of the price. They are the only thing that I know is concentric in my shop and everything I do is trued to them.
I turn my butts to .840 and then put on the epoxy seal coat. I block sand the seal coat to .850 using the sanding mandrill to insure concentricity, Then I change to a smaller arbor and sand the butt down to ,846. I put on my finish coats and let it cure for a week. Then I sand the finish back down to .850 using the sanding mandrill.
This way I only need one set of mandrills instead of sanding set and a finish set.
I use a similar procedure on the shaft.............
It has taken me 3 years to get it right....
Kim